Made with Love

Guilty until proven innocent: life after a false rape accusation

Fuj said:
A growing group of men are calling for changes in the law around sexual assault to protect those who are the victims of false accusations, reports Jonathan Wells

Don't hold your breath too long.
 
Consider the following:

The minimum education needed to become a police officer in Ontario is grade 12 or equivalent.

Nobody fails a grade in school anymore, because it hurts their self esteem.

Police officers are unionized, and they never get laid off. They make almost $60K in training, but they all think their underpaid.

Union rules give first priority for overtime to the officers who have the most seniority, so rookie cops only get overtime from shifts that no one else wants, like Superbowl Sunday, or from court appearances.

The total number of arrests a police officer makes enhances both his bank account, and his chances of being promoted.

There is often a period of 2-3 years between when an accused is arrested, and when the accused's trial is completed. During this time, the police can keep the accused's mug shot and fingerprints, to try to connect him to any unsolved cases, past or present.

If the accused is found not guilty, he may apply to have his fingerprints and mugshot removed from the database. That takes up to a year, from the date the request is made. If the accused is convicted, or if charges are dropped, or if the accused is acquitted, but does not apply to have the fingerprints and mugshot expunged, the police may retain them indefinitely.

If the detective who charges the accused does not request a jail sentence in the event of conviction, (ie: only that the accused supply a DNA sample), the accused does not qualify to receive free court appointed counsel at trial; he'd have to pay for his own lawyer, or defend himself, which would effectively prevent him from exercising his right to remain silent.

Crime statistics largely determine police staffing. Inflating crime statistics means more jobs for cops and lawyers.

If someone calls 911 to report a crime, many police officers 'just naturally assume' that a crime has been committed, because someone said so. If the caller indicates that he/she would like to have charges pressed, many cops then 'take their case', as if they were 'ambulance chasing lawyers', or dog catchers. Fellow cops help each other, (because 'he must have done something'), and the Crown acts on behalf of the police in court.

The accuser is called 'the victim', because he/she said so. The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and a slice of sympathy pie from the court of public opinion. Lawyers don't care if the guy is innocent or guilty, much of the time; they're paid to win cases.

If the accusations prove to be false, each of the 'guilty' parties just say 'I figured he was guilty' or 'I was just doing my job'. Much too often, those police officers and lawyers don't know what they're supposed to be doing, because they learn what to do by watching people who are doing it wrong.
 
If a false accusation of rape is proved the criminal penalty should be identical to that of rape. Oh the feminist horrors.
 
Mariner said:
If a false accusation of rape is proved the criminal penalty should be identical to that of rape. Oh the feminist horrors.

Both of these crimes affect the rape victims. I can only literally imagine what a person goes through after being falsely accused of rape, or any crime. Yet if you believe the statistics, apparently those who are falsely accused of rape,of them, only a very small percentage actually ever go to trial. However most victims of rape suffer for life, they suffer physically and psychologically, and re-live the violence, over and over. It never goes away. It can get better, but a rape victim is never exonerated, and often is punished beyond the physical trauma by disbelievers and or those who often blame the victim for encouraging the act.One crime is horribly violent, one is horribly dishonest. So I don't think the two crimes are equal, nor should their penalties be.
 
cristycurves said:
Both of these crimes affect the rape victims. I can only literally imagine what a person goes through after being falsely accused of rape, or any crime. Yet if you believe the statistics, apparently those who are falsely accused of rape,of them, only a very small percentage actually ever go to trial. However most victims of rape suffer for life, they suffer physically and psychologically, and re-live the violence, over and over. It never goes away. It can get better, but a rape victim is never exonerated, and often is punished beyond the physical trauma by disbelievers and or those who often blame the victim for encouraging the act.One crime is horribly violent, one is horribly dishonest. So I don't think the two crimes are equal, nor should their penalties be.

Your logic is seriously one sided and flawed. You are missing the crucial point that a false accusation can possibly put a man in prison. Loss of freedom, family, career etc and possibly and scarred for life. If it is know that the penalty for a false accusation is the same as for the crime that is being falsely accused then women like this might think long and hard about it. As it stands they get a free pass. Of course, no big deal so long as we do not offend the PC sensibilities of false feminism.
 
This is the picture of the 17 year old guy who killed himself after being falsely accused of rape:

false2_3479037b.jpg

A whole lot of people, myself included, would mentally draw conclusions about him, based on this photograph, like 'oh...his eyes look weird', or 'why is he smiling like that?', and similar. The photo might or might not have been altered before being posted online.

A big problem with all sexual assault accusations is that the definition of the offense is subjective and ambiguous; people are taught today that they have been sexually assaulted, 'if they feel they have been'. Maybe a woman doesn't like the facial expression on a doctor's face, when he is performing a physical examination. Maybe an intoxicated person enjoys physical 'horseplay' with one person but not with another. Maybe someone pretends to have been a victim, to show solidarity with some other person who claims to have been a victim.

Here's a good example: The 1991 rape trial of William Kennedy Smith. He was the son of Jean Kennedy, sister of John F. Kennedy, Robert F Kennedy, Ted Kennedy, etc., "The Kennedys" of US politics. He met a woman at a bar in Florida. They went to the family estate house, and had sex on the grounds. Part way through the act, he called her some other woman's name, she changed her mind, and he finished. She claimed to have been raped, because half way through a consenting sex act, she changed her mind. He was acquitted, but her identity was shielded by the court, and his reputation was destroyed.

Women falsely claim to have been raped or sexually assaulted all the time, for any of a number of reasons, often to assert themselves by having an authority figure intervene on their behalf. Sometimes they're hired to pretend to be past victims of someone accused of something by someone else.

Some people just think it's funny to tell lies about people. We all know plenty of people on boards, and in real life, like THAT.
 
Mariner said:
Your logic is seriously one sided and flawed. You are missing the crucial point that a false accusation can possibly put a man in prison. Loss of freedom, family, career etc and possibly and scarred for life. If it is know that the penalty for a false accusation is the same as for the crime that is being falsely accused then women like this might think long and hard about it. As it stands they get a free pass. Of course, no big deal so long as we do not offend the PC sensibilities of false feminism.

Well thank you for your response, and your one sided logic:) So it is only women who falsely accuse a person of a crime? Both men and women cry fowl. Your obvious disdain towards women and feminists appears to cloud your judgement and opinion.This argument has nothing to do with feminism, it is about, does the crime fit the punishment. And of course there'll be those who'll agree to my point and who agree to yours, since some think physical brutality is more egregious than verbal assault. Rape victims suffer all of what you mentioned along with the physical injury, which in itself can be a prison. So no, I didn't miss the point that a false accusation can put a man/woman in jail, read my other posts on the topic, and wreak havoc in their lives, that is just your summation, lol. If imposing harsher sentences worked as a deterrent, as you seem to recommend, then I suppose we'd have fewer murders, rapes and other crimes, but sadly that isn't the case. So no, once again, I'll stay with my clouded judgement and continue to believe sentences for those crimes, rape and false accusation of rape, should not be equal.
 
@ Cristy: I don't have statistics to confirm this, but I believe the following is true, most of the time.

1) There is probably a very low incidence for women raping men, in the sense of 'penile-vaginal penetration'. Most men who were forced to perform in this manner would likely not report it to the police, nor to their buddies, who would likely be less than sympathetic.

2) Most men who perform rape likely do it more than once, until caught, either to a series of strangers, or to one person repeatedly, or some combination of the two. There is likely little correlation between the number of rapes which occur, and the number of individuals who commit those crimes. Many misleading statistical models attempt to make a 1:1 correlation.

3) Many accusers who claim to have been raped define the term differently. The police and media are largely to blame, by using a vague and unclearly defined term like 'sexual assault' as an inclusive 'catch all' that can possibly not involve any physical contact. Some 'victims' may 'feel' that they have been sexually assaulted, if a person of the opposite sex to whom they are not attracted pinches their bum, calls them fat, or makes a lewd comment. They may wish to empathize with a rape victim, by claiming that they, too, have suffered equally, but that is far from the case. It serves instead to trivialize the more serious crime, by lumping it together with proportionally minor incidents. Too many people seem to have an addiction to 'sympathy pie', perhaps because they were not 'weaned' of this urge at an early enough age.

Legal definitions of crimes are meant to be, and must necessarily be, specific, and clearly defined. The idea that an individual can chose to define a crime by their own subjective criteria is relatively recent, and very dangerous. This aspect of law and the 'court of public opinion' leads to miscarriages of justice and ruined lives.
 
Prim0 said:
Your two views are not mutually exclusive.

1. Rape is a horrible thing and should be punished severely.
2. Falsely accusing someone of rape who did not commit rape is a horrible thing and should be punished severely.


What's the debate?

ABSOLUTLY 100% CORRECT
People need to read the written points correctly and stop jumping to the other side of the fence in a rush to defend rape victims
The article in question IS FALSLY ACCUSED VICTIMS
Women or Men who perform this act are just as guilty as an actual rapist.
The damage to a victims life is forever and is devastating.
It is like falsely accusing someone of being a child molester.

DILLIGAF
 
Just reading this through. Why was Flash Bazbo banned?. I enjoyed his sometimes boring and useless posts but he was a character.
 
DILLIGAF said:
ABSOLUTLY 100% CORRECT
People need to read the written points correctly and stop jumping to the other side of the fence in a rush to defend rape victims
The article in question IS FALSLY ACCUSED VICTIMS
Women or Men who perform this act are just as guilty as an actual rapist.
The damage to a victims life is forever and is devastating.
It is like falsely accusing someone of being a child molester.

DILLIGAF

:SayWhat?::LMAO:
 
cristycurves said:
:SayWhat?::LMAO:
@Cristycurves
I am not quite sure how to interpret your imoge as a comment!
Sorry I am old and not with the times could you interpret this for me in words!
What are you saying?

DILLIGAF
 
A say what emicon usually means he/she said what? A laughing emicon means that something said is found to be funny. I found your comment funny. Sorry I thought most emicons were self explanatory.
 
cristycurves said:
A say what emicon usually means he/she said what? A laughing emicon means that something said is found to be funny. I found your comment funny. Sorry I thought most emicons were self explanatory.

Sorry Cristy you must have misunderstood my question
I know exactly what the emogi's mean. It is your comment via the emogi's inferring that you found my comment to be funny!
My comment was not delivered to be funny in any way and I am sorry if you interpreted it that way!
RAPE or THE FALSE ACCUSATION of rape is and never will be funny!

DILLIGAF
 
DILLIGAF said:
Sorry Cristy you must have misunderstood my question
I know exactly what the emogi's mean. It is your comment via the emogi's inferring that you found my comment to be funny!
My comment was not delivered to be funny in any way and I am sorry if you interpreted it that way!
RAPE or THE FALSE ACCUSATION of rape is and never will be funny!

DILLIGAF

No I didn't misunderstand your question, I just didn't want to get into a long drawn out banter, as I'm doing know. You may not have delivered your comment to be funny, but I found it funny, cynically funny, because of your delivery( the capitalizations) and because I find it funny when someone insists something is 100% correct, instead of saying I agree. Who knows who's 100% right or wrong. We can all only attest to our opinions. I also found your comparing false allegations of rape to false allegations of child molestation to be unbalanced and not the same. Your last comment about rape not being funny confuses me, because in your previous statement-quote-(People need to read the written points correctly and stop jumping to the other side of the fence in a rush to defend rape victims
The article in question IS FALSLY ACCUSED VICTIMS-end quote) it appears you were incensed because you felt I was defending rape victims, and stepping outside of the op's topic, yet you end your last post basically doing the same, by lecturing me about rape not being funny, lol. Regardless, you don't have to lecture me about rape or anything to do with it, I'm a survivor of it and I am fully aware of all that goes along with it! I'd like to know what have you experienced, rape or being falsely accused? Because people that speak to such things with such prowess and concern without having experienced either, irk me and will make me laugh, cynically and humorously, sorry!
 
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