How to combat guns and gangs before they come to your neighborhood?

[Pietro]

Something I have been asking myself lately. You all read the news and can tell times are changing. The heading is just a thought but shit is storming soon.

 

[Patron]

 

[God]

You need to call in the authorities. You can't let the gangs intimidate you. Why don't you see gangs in the better neighborhoods? People need to stand up for their neighborhoods and what's right. If you let them do as they wish, they'll just push further and further in.

Why do police have so much trouble in "the hood"....when a crime goes down, nobody is willing to talk. If you protect the gang because you don't like the police, or you're afraid of the gang, then things aren't going to get any better.

They keep their mouths shot so retaliation doesn't come their way.

 

[DILLIGAF]

Well according to the mayor of toronto. He is Agast at the situation.He wants millions for cameras and more fuddle duddle!
As per the report on TV last night the gun & drug haul from one person in peel is astounding but really.
We all know that the gangs carry weapons that the average cop can not compete with.
We all know that they don't give a crap about who if anyone gets caught by a stray bullet.
We all know that they are not afraid to silence anyone who poses as a threat to them.
When crime happens the news report usually says the person, suspect or victim was known to police.
So this is my take on what needs to be done to curb the gangs.
HUNT THEM!!!!!
We definitely have the manpower and technical resources to HUNT THEM!
We have an abundance of para military people that would love the chance to supplement their income with a bounty fee!
Just get this crap out of the hands of the "Goodie two shoe hand wringers"
Just once I would like to hear about one of their family members being killed by a banger!
We did this years ago to shut down Capone without going the bounty route but make no mistake about it they were hunted.
Just my rant for the day!

DILLIGAF

 

[ROBERTSON]

They keep their mouths shot so retaliation doesn't come their way.

Yep, pretty common knowledge.

 

[ROBERTSON]

Well according to the mayor of toronto. He is Agast at the situation.He wants millions for cameras and more fuddle duddle!
As per the report on TV last night the gun & drug haul from one person in peel is astounding but really.
We all know that the gangs carry weapons that the average cop can not compete with.
We all know that they don't give a crap about who if anyone gets caught by a stray bullet.
We all know that they are not afraid to silence anyone who poses as a threat to them.
When crime happens the news report usually says the person, suspect or victim was known to police.
So this is my take on what needs to be done to curb the gangs.
HUNT THEM!!!!!
We definitely have the manpower and technical resources to HUNT THEM!
We have an abundance of para military people that would love the chance to supplement their income with a bounty fee!
Just get this crap out of the hands of the "Goodie two shoe hand wringers"
Just once I would like to hear about one of their family members being killed by a banger!
We did this years ago to shut down Capone without going the bounty route but make no mistake about it they were hunted.
Just my rant for the day!

DILLIGAF

Excellent post dude.

One of problems that LE has, is that nobody has the guts to tell groups like BLM (some times) to STFU, and stay out of things that they have no business interfering in.

 

[DILLIGAF]

Excellent post dude.

One of problems that LE has, is that nobody has the guts to tell groups like BLM (some times) to STFU, and stay out of things that they have no business interfering in.

Like I said Get this out of the hands of the Hand wringers and the Goodie Two Shoes.
I have no problem discussing this with any race, religion or other group.
If you are not part of the solution YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM!
If you want me to say BLM is a gang. so be it.
If you cause violence and force your opinions on others with violence then you are PART OF THE PROBLEM
And I agree with you Robbi that they need to be told to STFU - sometimes

DILLIGAF

 

[DILLIGAF]

Did you recently see Bruce Willis' version of Death Wish? Is that what happened? :biggrin2:

Vigilantism sounds good at times....but the truth is, more innocents would probably be hurt than criminals. Talk to the libs in the US about why there isn't a stronger deterrent to gangs in the US. How much talk is there about how we shouldn't lock them up, they need to be rehabilitated, there too many POCs in prison because it's racism. Can't have a wall that might slow down the infiltration of MS13 into the US either. And it's not their fault they're in a gang. Trump may have reduced the POC unemployment rate down to almost nothing, but it's still his fault that POCs can't find good jobs and the fathers can't stay with their families and 70% of AA children are born to an unwed mother and abortion rates among POCs are higher and etc. etc. etc.

Keep giving people a pass for their behaviors. Let them do what they want and then make excuses for them. Blame someone else. And then watch as the groups you excuse continue to do more poorly than the generations before them. Prior to the welfare state, the AA community had lower rates of divorce and illegitimate births. And look at the culture. There are differences be tween the cultures of suburban whites, inner city whites, blacks, etc. Perhaps....just maybe.....there is something in the way the members of these groups are thinking that leads them down paths that are less profitable. Thug culture....looking the part....for people of any race....isn't going to get you good grades, opportunities to go to college, get advanced degrees, etc. Look at rap culture and what they're selling the kids.....gold teeth, hoes, booze, partying, etc.....is that how you make it in life? What do they always say about people who join gangs....they didn't feel accepted anywhere....their own families were broken....Well? Who made things that way? Was it outside influences or do people need to take responsibility for their own actions? Who's fault is it that you get knocked up at 14 and have to drop out of school to raise the kid and the baby daddy don't help none cause he moved on to the next hoe?

So yeah....with gangs....you gotta stand up. You gotta teach your kids early. You gotta find a way to fight them instead of protect them. You've got to talk your community leaders into fighting them and not giving them excuses. The white folks put drugs into the POC communities? The white folks put the guns into the communities. Someone could leave a pile of guns and drugs on a corner....that doesn't mean that you have to touch them, take them or use them. Personal responsibility?!

Primo
I am not talking about Vigilantism
I am talking about a Special Force from the Military or the Feds or the Province. HUNT THEM PROSECUTE THEM AND LOCK THEM UP OR DEPORT THEM!
Get all hunting and prosecutions out of the regular mainstream of justice that is incapable of dealing with this.
Yes this seam harsh and unruly but the freedoms of the normal people is being taken by these groups and the lack of pro-action is allowing them to fester and grow in size and strength
Your last paragraph states you gotta stand up. Teach your kids early. That is not pro-active that is defensive.
People are afraid to say the words HUNT or EXTERMINATE.
Why are they afraid of hurting a gang-bangers rights. They don't have any once they chose that life style.

DILLIGAF

 

[ROBERTSON]

Primo
I am not talking about Vigilantism
I am talking about a Special Force from the Military or the Feds or the Province. HUNT THEM PROSECUTE THEM AND LOCK THEM UP OR DEPORT THEM!
Get all hunting and prosecutions out of the regular mainstream of justice that is incapable of dealing with this.
Yes this seam harsh and unruly but the freedoms of the normal people is being taken by these groups and the lack of pro-action is allowing them to fester and grow in size and strength
Your last paragraph states you gotta stand up. Teach your kids early. That is not pro-active that is defensive.
People are afraid to say the words HUNT or EXTERMINATE.
Why are they afraid of hurting a gang-bangers rights. They don't have any once they chose that life style.

DILLIGAF

Fully agree.

This class of criminal violence, using guns, is a category that needs to be tackled differently, outside of normal LE channels, because it is NOT working worth shit now.

Obviously kids in poor neighborhoods need to be looked at differently, but at the same time, not use the economic status as an excuse to be irresponsible.

And also obvious, self serving, special interest groups and individuals, need to be completely ignored when gun using and carrying criminals are being observed, charged and convicted.

For Christ sake, one can get a tougher sentence for fraud, than illegally carrying a gun.

I know someone is going to pronounce that old and now useless Bull Shit, "your papers please".

Guess what, since "carding" was stopped, gun violence has sky rocketed.

Sure, innocent people may be targeted, but that's the price we have to pay in the current outburst of gun violence.

 

[DILLIGAF]

You are missing my point on this Primo
YES I am saying to apply justice differently to a particular group!
No Not all gang members are Violent. Please show me the ones that are not!
No each person does not deserve the same rights under the law.
When you choose to become a violent criminal or gang member you forfeit your rights!
You want the police to follow the rules while they break them. Does not make sense.
Increasing policing, putting up cameras and all the other attempts have failed. period end full stop.
By allowing this gangs to continue un chcecked we are glamorizing their life and youth today is trying to imitate it and follow it.
A kid today looks at school, hard work, pushing himself to become something and then he looks at this image of layback do nothing take what you want threaten intimidate steal shoot rape I am untouchable and then you wonder how they make that decision or how they get caught up in this lifestyle.
Remember they are at an impressionable age and will look at this as fitting in and being accepted.
So yes I am saying we need to take a different approach on this. We need to go on the offensive with the politically correct hancuffs off.
I am not saying turn all cops lose on this. I am saying attack this with special forces in selected cities and watch the rats run.

DILLIGAF

 

[ROBERTSON]

You are missing my point on this Primo
YES I am saying to apply justice differently to a particular group!
No Not all gang members are Violent. Please show me the ones that are not!
No each person does not deserve the same rights under the law.
When you choose to become a violent criminal or gang member you forfeit your rights!
You want the police to follow the rules while they break them. Does not make sense.
Increasing policing, putting up cameras and all the other attempts have failed. period end full stop.
By allowing this gangs to continue un chcecked we are glamorizing their life and youth today is trying to imitate it and follow it.
A kid today looks at school, hard work, pushing himself to become something and then he looks at this image of layback do nothing take what you want threaten intimidate steal shoot rape I am untouchable and then you wonder how they make that decision or how they get caught up in this lifestyle.
Remember they are at an impressionable age and will look at this as fitting in and being accepted.
So yes I am saying we need to take a different approach on this. We need to go on the offensive with the politically correct hancuffs off.
I am not saying turn all cops lose on this. I am saying attack this with special forces in selected cities and watch the rats run.

DILLIGAF

Agreed, a good example would be how the DEA is allowed to operate.

 

[DILLIGAF]

YES!!!! Robertson you get what I am saying
NO!!! Primo your not getting it
It is this very discussion you are having that is the cause of the problem.
Lets just pick a hypothetical situation for a second and I will try and show you what is wrong with the current system.
Person "A" decides to commit an armed robbery of a convenience store.
During the crime Person "A" mask falls off and now people can identify him and he is now realizing that he is on video surveillance camera.
Person "A" makes a decision to use his gun and kill everyone in the store and walks out gets in his car and drives away.
Now Police arrive on scene.
Can't refer to the criminal as Caucasian or black or Hispanic. god forbid that would be racial profiling.
Police check camera and see that they recognize the criminal. Can't say his name but the can say that he was known to police as he has a record for past similar offenses.
Now they have made an arrest and the criminal is going to court. Now the lawyers get involved and the court hears all about his troubled childhood and the fact that he was suffering PTSD because his mommy never let him breastfeed.
Budda Boom Budda Bing. He is now back out on the street and free to walk about as if nothing happened.
Now you can look over your shoulder the next time you go into a convenience store to see if Person "A" is behind you at the cash counter.
Your rights to have a normal life and go about your business have been greatly reduced because Person "A" was never dealt with in the first place.
So according to your plan he should be kicked back into the public and allowed to commit the crime again or escalate his level of crime because on your plan we don't have any ramifications for your actions.

DILLIGAF

 

[ROBERTSON]

YES!!!! Robertson you get what I am saying
NO!!! Primo your not getting it
It is this very discussion you are having that is the cause of the problem.
Lets just pick a hypothetical situation for a second and I will try and show you what is wrong with the current system.
Person "A" decides to commit an armed robbery of a convenience store.
During the crime Person "A" mask falls off and now people can identify him and he is now realizing that he is on video surveillance camera.
Person "A" makes a decision to use his gun and kill everyone in the store and walks out gets in his car and drives away.
Now Police arrive on scene.
Can't refer to the criminal as Caucasian or black or Hispanic. god forbid that would be racial profiling.
Police check camera and see that they recognize the criminal. Can't say his name but the can say that he was known to police as he has a record for past similar offenses.
Now they have made an arrest and the criminal is going to court. Now the lawyers get involved and the court hears all about his troubled childhood and the fact that he was suffering PTSD because his mommy never let him breastfeed.
Budda Boom Budda Bing. He is now back out on the street and free to walk about as if nothing happened.
Now you can look over your shoulder the next time you go into a convenience store to see if Person "A" is behind you at the cash counter.
Your rights to have a normal life and go about your business have been greatly reduced because Person "A" was never dealt with in the first place.
So according to your plan he should be kicked back into the public and allowed to commit the crime again or escalate his level of crime because on your plan we don't have any ramifications for your actions.

DILLIGAF

Well stated.

Typically when some one commits "armed robbery", that includes a gun.

And that once again is the key element here, criminal activity that evolves guns, even if it is "just" illegal possession, MUST treated from the get go without the typical restraints that hamper taking these criminal of the streets.

And as you pointed out, how many times do we see a picture of a criminal that the police are looking for involving a gun crime, has that criminal in prison garb.

This is just fricken ridiculous, and MUST be corrected, as we do have the RIGHT to walk and drive about in Canada, and and not be concerned about being shot at.

 

[papasmerf]

How easily that could be turned into.....I have the right to drive around town without being concerned about being hit by a drunk driver.....or a distracted driver. So.....you going to advocate for the banning of all alcohol?....banning of all cell phones? This goes back to my point that you can't just ban something in its entirety because a few or even many people are negligent and dangerous with its use/possession. Being a gang member doesn't necessarily mean you have committed a crime. You can't just run people in because of their associations....even if you find those associations to be abhorrent.

Primo

While I often agree with you; this time I can not.
When it comes to being a member of a GANG...Which by its generally accepted definition is a criminal group.
IMHO being a gang member warrants close observation by LE.
While I agree there are hangers on or Wanna Be's they are still worth watching.

 

[ROBERTSON]

How easily that could be turned into.....I have the right to drive around town without being concerned about being hit by a drunk driver.....or a distracted driver. So.....you going to advocate for the banning of all alcohol?....banning of all cell phones? This goes back to my point that you can't just ban something in its entirety because a few or even many people are negligent and dangerous with its use/possession. Being a gang member doesn't necessarily mean you have committed a crime. You can't just run people in because of their associations....even if you find those associations to be abhorrent.

The subject here is not about banning guns, or gangs.

It is about how criminal activates involving guns, should be handled.

I do understand that a lot of people in the US have this need to own a gun, and maybe it can NOW be justified there.

But maybe if those gun related criminal offenses were handled better, there wouldn't be the current problem.

Two women involved in the school entry bribing, are now facing 20 year in prison, maybe the should have shot some one to get their loser kids in, would have got a much lower sentence, because GUN was involved.

 

[DILLIGAF]

Close observation is fine. The post I've been reacting too made it sound as if they want everyone associated with gangs to be shot on sight.

Primo
I read your other post after this one and I just don't think you get what I am talking about. I am not talking about being a vigilante and breaking the law and I am not throwing all gang members into one category. Please listen very carefully.
I am talking about using the law enforcement to proceed with a hunt.
I am talking about stopping all the talking, speech making and general crap which prohibits or impedes the current law enforcement from pursuing these criminals.
I am not talking about turning all law enforcement officers lose. I am talking about a SPECIAL TASK FORCE that can operate across our country and one in your country that can operate without having to stop every time and wonder about the political correctness and the BS that they currently have to put up with.
I am talking about these criminals being brought immediately before selected judges that will not turn the case into a circus for the media or special groups.
Currently the criminals are back on the street before the police have a chance to complete the paperwork.
What I am saying is that "If you don't want to correct this problem and want immediate action then you are part of the problem"
Now before you go off and accuse me of saying your a gang member read the post and understand what i am getting at.
If we don't start your going to be wearing colours before you know it.

DILLIGAF