Those gun laws in the USA need to be changed.

[dreamblade]

Way to overreact! Someone used a gun for the wrong thing...they should all be taken away!


There are plenty of stories out there about crimes being stopped and lives being saved by legal handgun owners.


It all comes down to personal responsibility. Guns don't kill people, cars don't kill people, alcohol doesn't kill people. It's the idiots that don't use them responsibly that kill people!

Lets tally the number of good things done with personal gun ownership versus the bad. Also, let's tally the number of guns in legal circulation in the US compared to the number of citizens.

Furthermore, "idiot" is the default these days. There are more entitled, selfish, impulsive people than responsible ones. So using the "one bad apple" argument is starting to look like an orchard.

No, guns don't kill people, but guns kill. That is their only function.

(Yes, I say this as someone who has owned a gun licence in the US, and a staunch believer in a person's right to defend themself)

 

[Shiek]

There are more firearms in the US than there are citizens. In Canada its estimated to be the same, more firearms than citizens. Remember there are collectors out there who own thousands of them as well as the military.

Guns only function is not to kill. Guns also serve as a deterrent. I happen to enjoy target shooting and partake in it often. I also hunt, not for sport but for meat when its in season.

 

[dreamblade]

I can understand that guns used to also serve as a deterrent. I don't think that in the current socio-economic environment (increased poverty, culture of instant gratification, anomie) people think that way anymore. There has been an increase in gun-related crime in the last 3 years, and I don't see this trend decreasing soon.

I enjoyed target shooting as well, like I said, I had a license during my stint in the US, and used to go shooting with my sensei twice a month. It was ridiculously easy to get that license, even for a landed immigrant.

 

[HOF]

 

[Mm69]

The sad truth is that regardless of the laws, criminals will still break them. They are, after all, criminals. So while it is illegal for me to posess a fully automatic rife, they have them. It is illegal for my semi-automatic rifle to have more than 5 rounds in the clip. Yet crimals spray down a house in a drive by.
Lets instead send a message through sentencing. If you commit a crime with a firearm, including possessing one without a license, you're going away for a mandatory minimum of say 5years + time for the crime you committed with said firearm.

 

[Shiek]

Most gun owners have no objection to that Mm69, infact many of us have been screaming at the courts and govt to ENFORCE the existing laws and make it a serious offense with a minimum of 20 years when a firearm is used in the commission of a criminal act.

 

[Mm69]

Freedom is the greatest right of mankind and for someone else to try and take that freedom away is just pure evil.

I thought that was called "the government"

 

[train]

want to own guns, bombs, poison, etc? Fine, but if you use any of them to injure someone else or force them to do something they don't want to do, then you shall be stopped and punished.

Trouble is that after the fact enforcement isn't always satisfactory. It's fairly clear that the existing laws are ineffective due to the cost or logistical difficulty in eenforcing them. So if the majority don't want a change every so often expect another Sandy Hook. Your theory is fine if everyone behaves rationally but that is like dreaming in technocolour. There are too many wack-jobs out there for any remaining sane person to believe that existing laws can be effective in this environment. The facts of recent events sort of stand for themselves do they not?

 

[Mm69]

A wack job with a hammer can still kill people. Beyond that we`re just talking body count.
Sandy hook was a tragedy. So was Colimbine. But McVeigh killed 168 people and injured over 800 with a bomb made with 5,000 pounds of fertilizer and racing fuel.
Crazy people do crazy things, and it doesn`t matter what they do it with.

 

[Shiek]

Not to mention how many was it, 19 children under 6?

You cant control the crazy ones as Mm69 said. They will find a way, whether its a car into a crowd of people like what happened on Yonge St this past summer or some other way. You cant punish the majority of law abiding citizens for the actions of a miniscule minority. It just does not work that way in reality.

 

[Transient]

You cant punish the majority of law abiding citizens for the actions of a miniscule minority. It just does not work that way in reality.

Gasp! Are law abiding citizens gonna be whipped? Jailed? Put in stocks? Have their guns taken away from them?
No.
They will still be able to own as many guns as they wish. Perhaps just not all the types of guns they wish. You have already stated that the semi autos that are being considered for being banned, function the same as other semi auto rifles. Just buy a different firearm. So where is the punishment? Filling out a few extra forms? Going through a background check? Law abiding citizens will handle this the same way they always do, by abiding by the new laws and regulations.

 

[Shiek]

Forms are already in place, background checks are already in place. Law abiding citizens are fed up with even more checks being put into place and yes they are going to try and confiscate firearms. The problem is, these reactions do NOTHING to stop the problem. Chicago is the capital of firearm related crimes yet firearms are banned there, it did nothing to stop the crime. Remove the law, allow the law abiding citizens to own arms again and watch the crime rate plummet. Criminals and nut jobs are emboldened when they know guns are outlawed.

In Canada, handguns have been heavily regulated for 80 years. Crimes related to law abiding citizens owning them are extremely low. Crimes related to criminals with no licenses owning illegally obtained handguns is quite high. Maybe if the courts would enforce the existing laws instead of giving these gang bangers a slap on the wrist because they are young, things would be less deadly and there would be fewer firearm related crimes being committed. The young offenders act here is a joke to these people and they will use it to their fullest advantage.

Now I've see the list of these so called "assault" weapons they wish to ban. It's a joke, seriously a joke. It was put together by someone with zero training in firearms, who calls herself a firearms expert because she's looked at thousands of pictures. "Ooooh that one looks scary, ban it". Yet it does nothing to stop the criminals.

Thats not logical thinking, this same government sold thousands and thousands of firearms to criminals south of the border. Wheres the logic in that? Why is this government purchasing enough ammo to shoot every citizen 6 times over for internal use? Over a billion and a half rounds purchased. Something isnt right. At the height of the Iraq/Afghanistan war the military was going thru 5 million rounds a month. At that rate it would take over 300 months to use 1.5 billion rounds. However the military purchases are separate from the DHS purchases.... so again,, why is the govt trying to ban firearms yet at the same time putting them into criminals hands in other countries and buying ammo to use in their own country?

Why dont they just go after the criminals a bit harder and enforce the existing laws and trust the law abiding citizens to help them instead of hindering them.

 

[Shiek]

I know John Evers and was very happy to see that CBC did this interview in a neutral fashion instead of in an ANTI demeanor.



He even got his first ever piece of hate mail which he published. The address show is that of the gun club which is publicly shown on the club's website.

Read up

 

[Mm69]

and she suggests that he should do so serious soul searching........ lol