To a particular, 'who shall remain unnamed' new member.

[a 1 player]

No A1player I do not believe there is anything wrong in earning money in a moral fashion. I actually applaud it and this trait is what I am hoping to instil in the women for hire.

Then the next question I will ask is...

If selling stuff is legal, and sex is legal, why is selling sex illegal?

ALL of us here refuse to see women if we believe they are being exploited, forced, or coerced into the sex trade. I personally even know of a couple of gentlemen who have given up their anonymity by getting the police involved to ensure the woman's safety, without regard to the consequences they put themselves in. Yet an exchange of money for companionship is immoral?

Everyone has their own reasons for hiring an escort. For some it is because a spouse has passed away or is gravely ill and they need the comfort of human touch, some are social misfits who just do not do well with the opposite sex, some have lost literally millions to an ex and just don't want to take the chance of that happening again. For myself, my partner likes women occasionally, but does not want to form an emotional relationship, and does not want me to do the same with the women we invite to share our intimacy.

The thing about morals, is that they are fluid and vary according to what ones ideals are. As no two people view God in exactly the same way, the same is true of the morals associated with him. For example, I disagree with some of the 10 commandments, so I have put my own in place which reflect my morality, virtues and values better. They are no better or worse that the original ones, but reflect me better without the guilt associated with the standard of the Catholic religion that was always nagging be because I could not live up to its standard.

So, for the morality of earning money as a prostitute... These women have a commodity that they are willing to trade (by choice), for money. This commodity has an expiration date, like rice or wheat (sorry ladies). If they choose this willingly, it is a medium of exchange no different than any other commodity. AND just like in any other business transaction, both parties have the full right to say NO, and stop the transaction before it occurs.

 

[a 1 player]

And it's a 1 player dammit! Get it right!

 

[tboy]

And it's a 1 player dammit! Get it right!

LOL oh fuck, I'm glad I wasn't drinking my coke when I read that lmao....

BTW: good post, now I see why we get along so well !!!

I would like to add: this is a prime beef of mine with people like our deluded friend. They take it upon themselves to dictate to others how they SHOULD lead their lives, they don't believe in a person's right to choose what's best for THEM. They feel they have the right to decide what's best for EVERYONE....(which is morally wrong, but try to tell them that).

 

[SillyGirl]

i will share with you this blog. Please read it, especially you Tboy it may help you. I must now leave as Ida is becoming a little irritated with me. We have a long list of errands to do today.

https://catholicmutt.blogspot.com/2011/07/religion-saves-day.html

I suspect Ida is starting to realize your interest in our community is not as charitable as you're trying to make it seem.

Way to go, Ida, you should really nip this in the bud before Brent starts shelling out $250/hour to save the poor heathen women from their wicked, wicked ways.

 

[tboy]

I suspect Ida is starting to realize your interest in our community is not as charitable as you're trying to make it seem.

Way to go, Ida, you should really nip this in the bud before Brent starts shelling out $250/hour to save the poor heathen women from their wicked, wicked ways.

and points out that they can be SAVED by kissing the holy sceptre lol......

 

[a 1 player]

I would like to ask another question. I ask this sincerely and without malice.

If it were to be proven, 100%, absolutely and totally that there was no God, would you change your faith? I would like to know the answer to this one question, so I may know if I am dealing with a man of reason, or one solely of faith who says 'reason be damned'. If you are the former, we can have a great conversation. If you are the latter, anything I say would be moot and all discussion impossible.

 

[tboy]

Player: this reminds me of a movie called Goya's Ghost where citizens are asked "the question" and if they don't answer, they are tortured until they do. I seem to recall the "question" is whether they don't believe in god. The problem is, even if you do, you'll say no when tortured enough. The head "inquirier" is then subjected to the question and of course, like any sane person would realize, that with the right amount of pain, EVERYONE will deny god exists. Therefore all those killed and tortured were simply forced to say no, there is no god.

The beauty of organized religion is faith. You have to have faith in the fact that there is a god and when put to the test, that faith will always fail. No matter what. (that is, if the test is extreme enough). That's the hook that the various organizations get you with. Since there is no proof of any sort that any of these gods exist, you have to accept everyone's interpretation of the various literature verbatim. No questions asked.

Think of it this way: Someone at Bell Canada writes a book. Then they convince 1000 people to believe in it verbatim. That there is religion. In this book they say it is blasphemus to use a phone provided by anyone but them. Oh yeah Oh yeah, Thou shall not place calls via rogers. Then they tell all the unwitting, that if they follow this book, they'll be rewarded with pleasures beyond belief when they die, and if they commit a crime, no matter how serious, they'll be forgiven if they admit they did it. I mean, how dumb do you have to be to lead your life with no remorse as long as you can be forgiven, no matter what you do?

If enough people buy into the Bell Book, then there you have it.....no different than the bible. The thing about the religious? They ignore anything that doesn't abide by their credo. They also ignore the fact that every copy of "the bible" was unique because, back then, they didn't have printing. Scribes simply copied it and it is a proven fact that every scribe who copied the bible, put his own spin on it (his interpretation). Therefore what buddy is reading now, isn't even CLOSE to the original (yet conveniently choses to ignore it). For all we know, the original could have said COVET they neighbour's daughter, thou SHALL steal........

Sorry folks, but if 1,000,000 people tell the same lie, that doesn't make it truth......

 

[Art Mann]

That reminds me of why I switched to Rogers

That reminds me of why I switched to Rogers

Only one problem, now I have to wear a keffiyeh ever time I want to make a phone call.

 

[tboy]

Since the church is the second or third biggest business in the world, kind of makes you wonder doesn't it?

 

[Robintheboywonder]

Hey, how does one get an invitation to this dinner party. I would love to sit at the table as Bizzaro tries to convince T and A1 he's right.

I'll bring the Coors if I'm invited!!

 

[Art Mann]

Bring batman57 too .... just to confirm/disprove the theory that bazerko is a pseudonym for Adam West

 

[Baz]

A1player, you are more than welcome to attend, please consider yourself invited. I will now try and attempt to answer some of your questions. If I miss any please feel free to re-ask. If it was proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is no higher being I would have to accept it, although as of today we rely on faith so how you would attempt to prove this is beyond me. I also can't accept your theory that a human being can be considered a commodity. Let’s take an individual who claims you can use their body to inflict serious damage or to allow you to cut them open and look inside. If the authorities were to find that this occurred would you not be charged? Why is it illegal to assist a person to commit suicide after all it is their body, correct? We do live in a free society but we are not free from prosecution regardless of what we do with our own bodies or property for that matter.

Robin I will also consider your request but I am limited to only 20 people so I will place you as a maybe for now. Please do not take offence to this but I would like to find out a little more about you first.

Amy, first off as I mentioned to you and the others I am not a fanatical person when it pertains to religion. Yes I do believe but I don't sit and read the bible day after day. I don't care if someone is Roman Catholic, Protestant or Jewish; I'm not here to challenge their faith, I will however challenge Atheism, as I believe this is harmful to an individual and his or her moral compass. If you were paying attention you would have read I will be inviting some guest speakers who are entrepreneurs. I never once said I would be inviting Priest, Clericals or Rabbis now did I? May I include you on the list of invitees Amy?

Sillygirl I'm disappointed you have turned down my invitation along with Art. I assure you I have no ill will towards any of you and no harm will come to anyone of you. I'm hoping that with the acceptance of A1Player who is by his definition an intimidating individual you will feel secure and attend our festive evening. I do live in the beaches area, which is a very safe part of the city.

 

[Baz]

Sillygirl I will extend an invitation to your good friend Hof. This should hopefully raise your comfort level if Hof accepts my invitation.

 

[IFUSEEKAMY]

You call yourself a Christian and admit you dont even know the word of God nor do you care to. Shame shame SHAME on you

 

[SillyGirl]

Amy, first off as I mentioned to you and the others I am not a fanatical person when it pertains to religion. Yes I do believe but I don't sit and read the bible day after day. I don't care if someone is Roman Catholic, Protestant or Jewish; I'm not here to challenge their faith, I will however challenge Atheism, as I believe this is harmful to an individual and his or her moral compass. If you were paying attention you would have read I will be inviting some guest speakers who are entrepreneurs. I never once said I would be inviting Priest, Clericals or Rabbis now did I? May I include you on the list of invitees Amy?

Sillygirl I'm disappointed you have turned down my invitation along with Art. I assure you I have no ill will towards any of you and no harm will come to anyone of you. I'm hoping that with the acceptance of A1Player who is by his definition an intimidating individual you will feel secure and attend our festive evening. I do live in the beaches area, which is a very safe part of the city.

If you were paying attention, you would have read that I do not care to dine with people who consider me beneath them. Besides, this is starting to smell like an Amway recruiting party. At best.

So again, no thank you.

 

[tboy]

A1player, you are more than welcome to attend, please consider yourself invited. I will now try and attempt to answer some of your questions. If I miss any please feel free to re-ask. If it was proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is no higher being I would have to accept it, although as of today we rely on faith so how you would attempt to prove this is beyond me. I also can't accept your theory that a human being can be considered a commodity. Let’s take an individual who claims you can use their body to inflict serious damage or to allow you to cut them open and look inside. If the authorities were to find that this occurred would you not be charged? Why is it illegal to assist a person to commit suicide after all it is their body, correct? We do live in a free society but we are not free from prosecution regardless of what we do with our own bodies or property for that matter.

.

Let me address your points one at a time:
1) If I allowed a doctor to perform exploratory surgery on me, with my permission, that is not against any law. During some time in the hospital I was asked if a med student could perform an examination on me even though they had the result that this examination would discover. I said "sure why not" they got to learn somehow right?
2) No, we're not totally free to do what we want to ourselves but as long as what you do isn't illegal, then the authorities don't really give a rat's ass. You bring up an interesting point: suicide. I feel we SHOULD have control over how our lives end. I think in many cases (paralyzed, incurable disease, alzheimers etc) we SHOULD be allowed to end our lives if WE so choose.
3) What we do with our property. Yes we ARE free to do whatever we want with our property as long as it doesn't harm or place anyone else in peril. Now we can't burn down our house because that might cause a fire in our neighours but if we want to tear it down and put up another house? As long as we have a plan approved by the city, they don't care as long as it meets code. If I want to tear apart my truck, no one gives a shit.
4) Businesses use people as commodities all the time. For example: a hockey team. Their "value" is their assets which are the players, the staff, the building etc. Players are treated as commodities all the time, they are bought, sold, and traded. Same as say a staff of custom car builders. If the owner wishes to sell the business, anyone can buy the machinery anywhere but it is the employees who build the cars, not the machinery or the building.

As Player stated: prostitution is NOT illegal in Canada therefore as long as the act doesn't harm anyone and both parties consent, there is no law broken and no harm done.

As for your harping on a moral compass. I have morals, you have morals. They are different but one isn't any more valid than the other. The difference being is that YOU think yours are (more valid). That's the whole problem with religion: those who "believe in an imaginery being" have at their core, a belief that they are better than everyone/anyone else. And you are no different my friend.......

One thing I think you're missing/missed during your time here at HUBGFE: the ladies here, and those who are sps, aren't forced to work here by anyone else. They work for themselves, or various agencies by their own accord. Now if someone IS being forced to work as an SP? Then I agree, they DO need to be saved but as long as a woman is doing it of their own free will, then there is no harm no foul......

Since you live downtown, maybe you should be travelling Jarvis st or the Kingston Road track instead of harping here.......there you WILL find women being forced to work......

 

[Transient]

Yeah, ya know, those themed dinner parties thrown by an unknown eccentric host never work out well.

 

[Art Mann]

Sillygirl I'm disappointed you have turned down my invitation along with Art. I assure you I have no ill will towards any of you and no harm will come to anyone of you. ... I do live in the beaches area, which is a very safe part of the city.

Geez, you didn't mention up front that you live in The Beaches. All that waterfront air is good for the hair, so maybe I won't have to shampoo mine that night after all.

If you were paying attention, you would have read that I do not care to dine with people who consider me beneath them. Besides, this is starting to smell like an Amway recruiting party. At best.

So again, no thank you.

OK, here's the deal, bizarro. If you and ida ho can talk SillyGirl into coming to the dinner party, I'll come too ... on this one condition: Just like SG, I won't be wearing any panties.

 

[a 1 player]

If it was proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is no higher being I would have to accept it, although as of today we rely on faith so how you would attempt to prove this is beyond me.

Existence exists, and only existence exists. Existence is a primary: it is uncreated, indestructible, eternal. So if one is to postulate something beyond existence—some supernatural realm—one must do it by openly denying reason, dispensing with definitions, proofs, arguments, and saying flatly, “To Hell with argument, I have faith.” That, of course, is a willful rejection of reason.

The basic metaphysical issue that lies at the root of any system of philosophy [is] the primacy of existence or the primacy of consciousness.
The primacy of existence (of reality) is the axiom that existence exists, i.e., that the universe exists independent of consciousness (of any consciousness), that things are what they are, that they possess a specific nature, an identity. The epistemological corollary is the axiom that consciousness is the faculty of perceiving that which exists—and that man gains knowledge of reality by looking outward. The rejection of these axioms represents a reversal: the primacy of consciousness—the notion that the universe has no independent existence, that it is the product of a consciousness (either human or divine or both). The epistemological corollary is the notion that man gains knowledge of reality by looking inward (either at his own consciousness or at the revelations it receives from another, superior consciousness).

The source of this reversal is the inability or unwillingness fully to grasp the difference between one’s inner state and the outer world, i.e., between the perceiver and the perceived (thus blending consciousness and existence into one indeterminate package-deal). This crucial distinction is not given to man automatically; it has to be learned. It is implicit in any awareness, but it has to be grasped conceptually and held as an absolute.

Observe that the philosophical system based on the axiom of the primacy of existence (i.e., on recognizing the absolutism of reality) led to the recognition of man’s identity and rights. But the philosophical systems based on the primacy of consciousness (i.e., on the seemingly megalomaniacal notion that nature is whatever man wants it to be) lead to the view that man possesses no identity, that he is infinitely flexible, malleable, usable and disposable. Ask yourself why.

It is important to observe the interrelation of these three axioms [existence, consciousness, and identity]. Existence is the first axiom. The universe exists independent of consciousness. Man is able to adapt his background to his own requirements, but “Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed” (Francis Bacon). There is no mental process that can change the laws of nature or erase facts. The function of consciousness is not to create reality, but to apprehend it. “Existence is Identity, Consciousness is Identification.”

In a nutshell, existence exists and we perceive this through consciousness. If there is no existence, there can be no consciousness as there would be nothing to be conscious of. Therefore it also stands to reason that consciousness cannot come before existence, which is the meaning of God, is it not?

 

[tboy]

Well, that was quite the read player...but to add fuel to the fire, physicists and mathemeticians are now making discoveries that indicate that what we perceive as "reality" might not be what (or all) that it is.

I may have stated this before here but if so, I apologize in advance.

Way back when cortez was sailing the seven seas, he came upon an island and anchored his ships in a natural harbour. They observed a small villiage on a rise above the harbour and stayed on their ships for a time before setting forth on land. They saw the natives looking out over the harbour and even watched them as they paddled by on their canoes seemingly oblivious to them.

After a time one evening the natives finally rowed out to the ships and greeted the visitors. I'm not sure of the time frame, but they eventually learned the native language and when asked why they waited so long to come out, the chief said "we didn't see you". The fact that the ships presented such a foreign image that it was beyond the native's ability to see them. Only after the medicine man noticed the ripples in the water changing as they hit the ships, and after pondering it for a while, he was then able to see the ships and describe them to the chief etc.

Now I can understand how this could happen, the natives would be so simple in their imagination and experience that it is easy to see how they could overlook 3 sailing ships. It would be harder today with the amount of information we have available, the amount of aliens/alien crafts/supernatural beings we see in movies etc make us more experienced than ever before. Even a small child mightn't be shocked to see a green alien with 3 eyes standing on their lawn......

I think what the documentary was trying to say was that it seems that our perception of reality is taught/learned as opposed to a natural occurance. Just like religion, you have to be taught to believe in a god, it doesn't come natural (but if there is a god, wouldn't you think they'd make it ingrained into us to believe in him? I mean, they are supposed to be all powerful are they not? lol)