Toronto Island To Be Designated As Red Light District?

[lovelatinas]

A city counselor will propose the idea at City Hall. They want the sex trade industry legalized and regulated and to collect taxes from it much like Amsterdam.​

 

[SloCumHeat]

Really?! Don't the ferries stop running by 11pm or so, and that is in the summer <time to get a boat, hehe>

 

[TGordon]

City counselors just trying to gain face before the elections. Please give me a break, no way will this ever happen.

You have a day to discuss and tell you why it won't?.

 

[lovelatinas]

We should get Silvio Berlusconi to cut the ribbon .

 

[Cycleguy007]

Really?! Don't the ferries stop running by 11pm or so, and that is in the summer <time to get a boat, hehe>

An Island bridge doesn't sound like such a bad idea now doesn't it! :tongue: :shock:

 

[tboy]

They've been talking about a bridge for eons.....

They should be talking about a red light district down by the old bar "The Docks". It's perfect for it:

Out of the way
Out of site
Limited in and out access
Lots of empty land
No residential anywhere close to it

Of course it makes too much sense for a politician. They have to go way out in left field.....

 

[Auggie]

It won't happen, this guy isn't taken seriously by anyone on council.

Red Light districts are a bad idea from the start but of all neighbourhoods in Toronto, I'd say the Island is the worst place to have it. It's a family tourist area.

 

[tboy]

Why do you say RLDs are a bad idea? they work in all the other cities who have them.......

 

[Auggie]

Not having them works in Toronto.

I think hookers should be free to work out of their home, a hotel, or any rented space. A red light district means they are more likely to work for someone else and with fewer choices in a large hooker factory.

Imagine if you were told to operate your business in a certain area, that it would be illegal to set up a shop in Muskoka.

 

[tboy]

Well auggie, as so many are apt to tell me when I make the comparison between my business and being an escort, it is a totally different situation.

1) You're talking an entire REGION not a neighbourhood. Using your analogy would be like saying escorts can't work in Southern Ontario.

2)For the record, I cannot operate my business in a residential neighbourhood. There are zoning laws against that. I had a problem with the condo I lived in because they tried to shut me down. Fortunately for me the building was zoned "light industrial" so they couldn't.

As for working out of their home. I don't know about you but if I spent $400K on a condo or a home I personally wouldn't want a hooker plying her trade right outside my door. No offence to them but I don't want a constant parade of strangers roaming my halls.

For eg: would YOU want a drug treatment facility or a methadone clinic set up outside your front door?

As for "working for someone else", ummm I hate to break it to you, but the vast majority DO work for someone else. Or haven't you noticed the agency ads running here? Each one has about 20 women working for them and there's about.....10? so that's 200 escorts working for an agency compared to...what, 10 independants?

Then you get into the strip club situation. ALL the women are independants. They pay a fee to the DJ and the house to ply their trade in the club. Then they get tips while dancing on stage and get paid for lapdances/private dances/vip rooms. They seem to make a good living.

As for making the area more indie friendly, motels/hotels could set up shop renting rooms by the hour so anyone wanting to walk the streets, or ?? could simply book the room for an hour. Or (like many do now) they book the hotel room for the weekend and book clients and see them there.

I think it could be a LOT safer for the ladies in so far as for clubs, one could have to obtain a membership and be vetted before getting it. Then you have bouncers etc on hand whenever they are working just in case.

You still haven't given me any evidence that red light districts are a bad idea......

Oh yeah, as for not having them works for toronto? I guess you haven't read about the underage women being forced into escorting or the various robberies, etc that have taken place and (if) the Kera Freeland turns out to be client related, I rest my case. This could have easily been prevented if she had worked at an incall in a red light district because the SECOND she had any trouble she could have hit the panic button and had 2 big burly guys tossing the bad client out on his ass.....

 

[Insertion]

I personally do not like the idea of a RLD. I would not want to go to an area where everyone knows exactly why I'm there. At least with hotel and condo incalls there is some discretion. I'm sure many of the SP's would feel the same way. Discretion is a two way street.

 

[tboy]

I personally do not like the idea of a RLD. I would not want to go to an area where everyone knows exactly why I'm there. At least with hotel and condo incalls there is some discretion. I'm sure many of the SP's would feel the same way. Discretion is a two way street.

I hate to break it to you but if you're going to an incall that is not at a hotel? Anyone who sees you knows exactly where you're going......heck, an incall opened across the street from my place in TOronto and the whole building and street knew what it was within a week.....

Oh, and please don't tell me you're so naive that when you walk into an SC people think you're going there for the great reading material......lol

I mean, what do you think a RLD is? Wall to wall hookers? Chicks giving blow jobs on street corners? You'll have dance clubs, variety stores, sports bars, strip clubs, and I bet dollars to donuts Starbucks would open there too.

Seriously, think of all the other "districts" in Toronto. If you drive through Chinatown does that automatically mean you're there for chinese food? If you go to the Brewery district, are you only there to drink beer? How about the entertainment district? Are you there only to watch a play?

Oh, and a very VERY important fact that you're missing? If YOU go to an incall YOU are breaking the law....that means her residence, a hotel, or whatever. Incalls are illegal.....

I personally think it would be freaking amazing to go to a place like an SC, have a couple of dances, watch the show and if I see a lady I wouldn't mind boinking? I could! With no fear of arrest. No fear of a beating. No fear of getting ripped off.

 

[The Options Menu]

Why do you say RLDs are a bad idea? they work in all the other cities who have them.......

RLDs work for the least problematic segment of the market. People that can afford to visit a dedicated incall. The problems are simple:
- You never really do get the pimps 100% out, and that makes governments and LE 'squickey'.
- Even in a regulated RLD you never get the traffickers 100% out, and, once again that makes governments and LE 'squickey'.
- There is an ethical / religious / political case to be made that all sexwork is fundamentally exploitive, and that makes governments and LE 'squickey'.
- RLDs don't don't service the bottom end of the market very well, and that's where the overwhelming majority of the problems are (NIMBY issues, crime, drugs, nasty litter, pimps and abusers, etc.).
- What most experts want is a broad decriminalization (as per the recent court ruling), with adequate health / safety / anti-pimping / anti-trafficking regulations, with the possibility of dedicated RLDs coming later (and not at the expense of the broader deregulated industry).

 

[tboy]

Well TOM, there was a documentary on this very subject with all those "reasons" for not doing it put out by the naysayers.

Of all the countries that did instigate legalizing prostitution and creating a RLD they actually found:

Less cases of human trafficing
less cases of STDs among working women
Less crime
Less physical abuse of the ladies
A much safer environment and easier for the police to patrol. ie: if they found a woman streetwalking outside the RLD, no questions about legality, she's busted.

As for the sex trade being exploitive. That's true but it isn't just the women who are being exploited. Being an escort/hooker exploits men's basic sexual needs. If we weren't programmed by nature to sow our wild oats wherever we can, there would be no need for prostitution. Again, if women were a little less uptight (in general) about being sexually active, it'd be easier for guys to get laid.

For eg: back in the "free love" 60's, there were a hell of a lot less escorts/hookers than there are today. Is that because guys could get some easier? I hazard a guess to say "yes".

Personally I have yet to meet an exploited escort. Most prefer to work for agencies due to the time it takes for scheduling, arranging drivers, etc and all but one seemed really happy with what they were doing. I mean hell, there's a LOT worse things one could be doing for a HELL of a lot less money.......

A RLD isn't perfect...but it's a hell of a lot better than what's going on now.......

 

[The Options Menu]

A RLD isn't perfect...but it's a hell of a lot better than what's going on now.......

No, no... We basically agree. With the proviso that I'd / many others would much prefer a broad decriminalization (with sensible regulation and services for sexworkers) and then possible Red Light districts. If it comes down to a fully criminalized environment vs. a criminalized environment with RLDs, the latter is better if not 'best'. (My single biggest gripe with 'RLDs only' is that the pricing does far too little for the bottom end of the market where the real problems are in a criminalized environment.)

 

[Auggie]

What Maggies, a Toronto sex-worker organization has to say about red light districts.
===

In our 25 years, we have seen the media and politicians shamelessly appropriate violence against sex workers (whether the violence was work related or not) and use it to advance their own anti-sex work agendas, stereotypes and prejudices. We firmly oppose any proposal for a "red-light district" as it would only further segregate sex workers, who also live, work, study and have families in Toronto. Sex workers themselves must lead any initiatives to further their safety.

 

[The Options Menu]

What Maggies, a Toronto sex-worker organization has to say about red light districts.
===

In our 25 years, we have seen the media and politicians shamelessly appropriate violence against sex workers (whether the violence was work related or not) and use it to advance their own anti-sex work agendas, stereotypes and prejudices. We firmly oppose any proposal for a "red-light district" as it would only further segregate sex workers, who also live, work, study and have families in Toronto. Sex workers themselves must lead any initiatives to further their safety.

AKA- Broadly decriminalize. (With sensible supports.)

 

[tboy]

What Maggies, a Toronto sex-worker organization has to say about red light districts.
===

In our 25 years, we have seen the media and politicians shamelessly appropriate violence against sex workers (whether the violence was work related or not) and use it to advance their own anti-sex work agendas, stereotypes and prejudices. We firmly oppose any proposal for a "red-light district" as it would only further segregate sex workers, who also live, work, study and have families in Toronto. Sex workers themselves must lead any initiatives to further their safety.

AH, talk about BS....just about every industry in Canada realizes SOME segregation of some sort. I mean, oil platform workers have to work on oil platforms, gas station attendants have to work at....ahem...gas stations, accountants generally work in offices, how is someone going to a 'district' to ply their trade any different than say, stock brokers? Some brokers work on bay street, some work out of their houses.

I think the main problem that places like "maggies" have is that they think (and yes, it is different but not SO different) that their situation is unlike any other ever known to man or addressed by the lawmakers.

There is NO fucking way a hooker plying her trade on Jarvis street is safer than if she was in a bawdy house with bouncers 2 seconds away...NO fucking way....

 

[Auggie]

tboy, gas station attendants don't work only in gas stations that must be located in the Gas Station District.
I understand you can't open a gas station in your own residence for obvious reasons but they are allowed on all major streets across the city.
There isn't a good reason a hooker can't have a discreet business out of her home or rental unit in any area of the city, most of them are less toxic than a filling station.
They would also be as safe as in a bawdy house with bouncers if they set themselves up properly.

 

[tboy]

tboy, gas station attendants don't work only in gas stations that must be located in the Gas Station District.
I understand you can't open a gas station in your own residence for obvious reasons but they are allowed on all major streets across the city.
There isn't a good reason a hooker can't have a discreet business out of her home or rental unit in any area of the city, most of them are less toxic than a filling station.
They would also be as safe as in a bawdy house with bouncers if they set themselves up properly.

Ok, so you admit that there are some sorts of businesses that shouldn't be set up in residential areas? How about dance clubs? would you want one of those set up in the house/apartment next door? How about if an escort wants to set up her incall across the street from a grade school? would that be ok with you?

Oh, and for the record, there are zoning by-laws that determine where a gas station can be set up. Just like waste treatment plants, and many other "undesireable" establishments. Tell me ONE sub-division or condominium that has a gas station on the ground floor, or better yet, on the 11th floor across the hall from your unit......

Or better yet, how about you own a $750K bay street condo and decide to sell it. During your open house you have a parade of guys going into and out of the one across the hall. You know the one, the one with the finish worn off the door from the constant knocking......Who would buy it? Certainly not a family. Certainly not a couple. Certainly not a female. Certainly not me.....