W
Wanker
Guest
Surely there’s a better way for police to deal with an unruly child with special needs than slapping him with handcuffs and treating him like a criminal.
Just to play devil's advocate here:
The cops arrive to a call about an unruly child. The child continues to go nuts and hurts himself, the cops are lambasted for not "restraining" the child. Cops are in trouble.
Cops wait until the other special needs unit arrives, they don't arrive for 30 minutes, the kids hurts himself, cops are in trouble.
Cops are charged with subduing the child, instead of cuffs they grab him by both arms, the kids goes nuts and twists out of their hands, dislocating his shoulder when he does...cops are in trouble.
Cops decide to wait until the special unit arrives, the kid continues to go nuts, breaks the class windows and cuts himself severely. Cops are in trouble.
Pretty soon cops won't respond to ANY calls for fear of getting into trouble.....
I read that the kid won't "ever forget this...", good, maybe he'll remember this the next time.....
SmkngPopeye
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2011
- Messages
- 220
The boy is Autistic.
Autism is a disorder of neural development characterized by impaired social interaction and communication, and by restricted and repetitive behavior. These signs all begin before a child is three years old.[SUP][2][/SUP] Autism affects information processing in the brain by altering how nerve cells and their synapses connect and organize; how this occurs is not well understood.[SUP][3][/SUP] It is one of three recognized disorders in the autism spectrum (ASDs), the other two being Asperger syndrome, which lacks delays in cognitive development and language, and Pervasive Developmental Disorder-Not Otherwise Specified (commonly abbreviated as PDD-NOS), which is diagnosed when the full set of criteria for autism or Asperger syndrome are not met.[SUP][4][/SUP]
Fullthrottle
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We weren't there and unless we have a video it's hard to be judgmental on the cops action. In this case maybe the handcuffs were the safest way of containment. If they had tasered the young lad then I would agree they went over board.
And your point is? The mother herself said that he will never forget this.....
Maybe, maybe not. But what is your point? This thread is about whether or not the cops should have put him in handcuffs, for only 5 minutes I might add.
Yes but you played devil's advocate and way off line. Not a big problem as we are all entitled to our opinions but dude read on about it before you post.
PS. I still think you are fun and cool but way too off base.
Maurice Boscorelli
Senior Member
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- Messages
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Everyone expects the police to be 100% on point in dealing with every crisis that they deal with.
Well news flash people each situation has different criteria that has to be dealt with in a separate manner.
All outcomes are subject to criticism and thus complaints. And everyone seems to be an expert.
Well news flash people each situation has different criteria that has to be dealt with in a separate manner.
All outcomes are subject to criticism and thus complaints. And everyone seems to be an expert.
Cops are human. I believe they did the right thing. The mother is way over reacting.
The mother and many others.....and holy crap, oddball and I agree on something! Guess that is like a broken clock being right at least twice a day! lol
further to the comments here (and some on the news site) this reminds me of the story a few years ago where a mentally challenged man was on a TTC bus waiving a machete. The bus was cleared and the cops went in. I think it was 4 of them had the doors covered with guns drawn and ordered him to drop the machete 4 times....he didn't. He took a swing at one of the cops with the machete, they shot him, he died. There was a similar brouhaha about this too.
The underlaying factor is that even though someone is mentally challenged, that doesn't give them free reign to do whatever they like (like waiving a dangerous weapon around, damaging a classroom etc). Our society has progressed to the point where we have special needs schools, more public awareness about these illnesses and take great strides in integrating them into day to day life. BUT (and this is a huge ghetto butt), by doing so they are exposed to stresses and triggers that might set them off. WHen that happens, steps have to be taken to minimize the damage. Be it handcuffs, tasers, or in the case of the machete weilding man, guns.
Sure, the kid may have been scared. Maybe he will, maybe he won't remember the next time. Maybe he's now afraid of the cops. But the underlying factor here is that if someone has mental issues, that doesn't give them a free pass. Remember what they used to do with people with mental problems? Lock em up, dope em up, and change their diaper once a week......
Now if mom (and others) feel the regular cops didn't handle this correctly, then by all means, they are welcome to foot the bill to hire, and train, private police to be on hand at the school should something like this arises. I highly doubt that mom would be happy about her tuition going up exponentially to cover the costs......
The thing that kills me everytime there's a story about cops, is that everyone expects them to be the best at everything and act properly in every possible situation. Sorry, but that's living in a dream world. The type of a person to stand in front of a nutcase waiving a gun is 100% different than someone who can handle an upset mentally challenged person. IMO that's like demanding all linebackers to be able to write poetry like voltare........
I knew my eyes weren't playing tricks on me.
lol good one!
Sure, the kid may have been scared. Maybe he will, maybe he won't remember the next time. Maybe he's now afraid of the cops. But the underlying factor here is that if someone has mental issues, that doesn't give them a free pass. Remember what they used to do with people with mental problems? Lock em up, dope em up, and change their diaper once a week......
Not looking to pick an argument with you but what are you saying t-boy..all people with mental problems should be locked up indefinitely? Perhaps a better understanding of this issue would give people a better perspective of how to deal with them. Believe it or not, with the right amount support and education, there are many people with mental issues who can function well in the community. It is a lot cheaper than locking them up in a mental institution. Simultaneously, they learn to become independent and be a contributor in our society.
Now if mom (and others) feel the regular cops didn't handle this correctly, then by all means, they are welcome to foot the bill to hire, and train, private police to be on hand at the school should something like this arises. I highly doubt that mom would be happy about her tuition going up exponentially to cover the costs......
Dont you think it is unfair of you to exepct this mother to foot the bill especially when cops are forced to study different subjects when they in fact help certain communities. Yet not much is discussed on people with disabilities. Thus, they are oftem misunderstood and mistreated. LIke I said before, its difficult for the cops or any professions that deal with the public to understand many issues that they face everyday. However, the facts remain....not much studies have been done on people with disabilities to give the cops a chance on how to deal with them effectively.
Regarding the mother...what do you expect???? Don't you think its normal for a mother to worry about her own child? Let's not be so harsh on her.
Not looking to pick an argument with you but what are you saying t-boy..all people with mental problems should be locked up indefinitely? Perhaps a better understanding of this issue would give people a better perspective of how to deal with them. Believe it or not, with the right amount support and education, there are many people with mental issues who can function well in the community. It is a lot cheaper than locking them up in a mental institution. Simultaneously, they learn to become independent and be a contributor in our society.
Now if mom (and others) feel the regular cops didn't handle this correctly, then by all means, they are welcome to foot the bill to hire, and train, private police to be on hand at the school should something like this arises. I highly doubt that mom would be happy about her tuition going up exponentially to cover the costs......
Dont you think it is unfair of you to exepct this mother to foot the bill especially when cops are forced to study different subjects when they in fact help certain communities. Yet not much is discussed on people with disabilities. Thus, they are oftem misunderstood and mistreated. LIke I said before, its difficult for the cops or any professions that deal with the public to understand many issues that they face everyday. However, the facts remain....not much studies have been done on people with disabilities to give the cops a chance on how to deal with them effectively.
Regarding the mother...what do you expect???? Don't you think its normal for a mother to worry about her own child? Let's not be so harsh on her.
Peace: you totally misunderstood. I am or was in NO way insinuating that we should do like they did in the past which was lock them up and throw away the key. The point I was trying to make is that since as a society we've decided to integrate people with mental illness issues into our society, then there will be times when those mental issues will cause some, or them, harm and this is to be expected. It is also to be expected that, sometimes when they have an episode, force may have to be used.
Ok, so if I understand you correctly, if a cop is assigned to a district that has a school that caters to people with mental health issues, then they should receive 4 yrs of psychiatrist training so IF they get called to the school, they will know how to deal with the problem (like the psychiatrist said in the story). Who is going to foot the bill for that? I sure don't want to.....
Along those same lines then, I guess you feel that:
If there are chinese living in his district, he should learn to speak chinese?
If there are arabs living in his district, he should learn to speak arabic?
If there are portugese in his district, he should learn to speak portugese?
If there are bikers living in his district he should learn MMA so he can deal with them?
And people wonder why the cops want so much money? Hell with those qualifications he could make $500K a year as a translator......
IMO cops are trained to diffuse MOST situations and apply the force necessary to protect the well being of the perp, and society as a whole. Hence why if a perp become violent, the cops are trained to respond in kind in a method that limits the danger to the perp, and themselves. If someone exhibits mental issues and is "out of control" they MUST apply some method of containing or controlling that person.
In this case, the kid escaped unharmed which, IMO was the right move on the cop's part.......
As for expecting the mother to foot the bill, why is that so unreasonable? I didn't have a kid with mental health issues so why should I be expected to foot the bill for his special needs? While we're at it, should we also foot the bill for customization of a house for someone with a wheelchair? if someone has vision problems should we foot the bill for a 72" flat screen TV? I mean hell, our healthcare system doesn't even cover my dentist visit or my glasses and you're telling me you want me to pay for specially trained police to patrol a special needs school? LOL sorry, there's NO way you could get me on board with that......
Ok, so if I understand you correctly, if a cop is assigned to a district that has a school that caters to people with mental health issues, then they should receive 4 yrs of psychiatrist training so IF they get called to the school, they will know how to deal with the problem (like the psychiatrist said in the story). Who is going to foot the bill for that? I sure don't want to.....
Along those same lines then, I guess you feel that:
If there are chinese living in his district, he should learn to speak chinese?
If there are arabs living in his district, he should learn to speak arabic?
If there are portugese in his district, he should learn to speak portugese?
If there are bikers living in his district he should learn MMA so he can deal with them?
And people wonder why the cops want so much money? Hell with those qualifications he could make $500K a year as a translator......
IMO cops are trained to diffuse MOST situations and apply the force necessary to protect the well being of the perp, and society as a whole. Hence why if a perp become violent, the cops are trained to respond in kind in a method that limits the danger to the perp, and themselves. If someone exhibits mental issues and is "out of control" they MUST apply some method of containing or controlling that person.
In this case, the kid escaped unharmed which, IMO was the right move on the cop's part.......
As for expecting the mother to foot the bill, why is that so unreasonable? I didn't have a kid with mental health issues so why should I be expected to foot the bill for his special needs? While we're at it, should we also foot the bill for customization of a house for someone with a wheelchair? if someone has vision problems should we foot the bill for a 72" flat screen TV? I mean hell, our healthcare system doesn't even cover my dentist visit or my glasses and you're telling me you want me to pay for specially trained police to patrol a special needs school? LOL sorry, there's NO way you could get me on board with that......
Peace: you totally misunderstood. I am or was in NO way insinuating that we should do like they did in the past which was lock them up and throw away the key.at
This is why I sought clarification from you. Thanks.
The point I was trying to make is that since as a society we've decided to integrate people with mental illness issues into our society, then there will be times when those mental issues will cause some, or them, harm and this is to be expected. It is also to be expected that, sometimes when they have an episode, force may have to be used.
I understand where you are coming from and of course some measures must be used to defuse a volatile situation. However, as I said previously, with some education on people with disabilities, I am sure the cops would be better equipped dealing with them in case of a delicate situation arises.
Regarding the autistic boy, he was out of control in his own classroom. SO what...let it be....he threw paints....things in the classroom. Big Deal! THey can be replaced. He was alone in the class. No one was hurt. Once he is able to control or calm himself even if it takes him an hour, he can be asked to clean up his mess with or without assistance. Then talk to him about his choices whether they were poor or good. Keep in mind, he is 9 years old. Perhaps the staff involved was inexperienced or got scared or "overrreacted." Usually they should know what to do in case of something like this happens. Then again, I dont know the full story as the media often distorts or fails to provide the full picture.
Ok, so if I understand you correctly, if a cop is assigned to a district that has a school that caters to people with mental health issues, then they should receive 4 yrs of psychiatrist training so IF they get called to the school, they will know how to deal with the problem (like the psychiatrist said in the story). Who is going to foot the bill for that? I sure don't want to.....
I think this is a bit extreme but in this case, I would assume this cop probably took some workshops to familarize himself with the people in his community.
Along those same lines then, I guess you feel that:
If there are chinese living in his district, he should learn to speak chinese?
If there are arabs living in his district, he should learn to speak arabic?
If there are portugese in his district, he should learn to speak portugese?
If there are bikers living in his district he should learn MMA so he can deal with them?
...sorry Tboy, we are going off topic here as my focus was on people with mental issues. However, I would assume that the police force would do its best to hire people that would represent its communities well. This applies to many business organizations as well.
And people wonder why the cops want so much money? Hell with those qualifications he could make $500K a year as a translator......
I am not complaining about their incomes. I know they choose this dangerous occupation but I think putting your life in danger everyday deserves to be well compensated.
Regarding the translator's income..hahaha I want to sign up for it!!!! IN reality, thats not true for many of them. I know some translators charge from anywehre 20-65 dollars an hour. I could be wrong but one of my friends is a freelance translator. She charges 55 dollars an hour for her service.
As for expecting the mother to foot the bill, why is that so unreasonable? I didn't have a kid with mental health issues so why should I be expected to foot the bill for his special needs? While we're at it, should we also foot the bill for customization of a house for someone with a wheelchair? if someone has vision problems should we foot the bill for a 72" flat screen TV? I mean hell, our healthcare system doesn't even cover my dentist visit or my glasses and you're telling me you want me to pay for specially trained police to patrol a special needs school? LOL sorry, there's NO way you could get me on board with that.
People with disabilities deserve to be a part of our society. I dont have children but I pay taxes for them to go to school. Is it fair? No. Yet I strongly encourage that expenses be covered in order for them to have equal access to their able-bodied peers. Unfortunately the problem with our society is that it caters to mostly white able bodied men. For example, Deaf people cant use a public phone because its only for people who can hear. Yet hearing people can use it. In the past, TTC refused to name each bus stop to assist people with vision issues. Yet,they are expected to pay the full price. Or closed captioning wasnt available becuase it was considered expensive and deaf people couldnt watch their shows like their peers. Again they were expected to pay the full cable price. Sure, we can tell them not to watch tv. IS it fair? (and no im not living in a dream world) Funny thing, they now provide these services because many researches have indicated they benefit everyone involved.
This is why I sought clarification from you. Thanks.
The point I was trying to make is that since as a society we've decided to integrate people with mental illness issues into our society, then there will be times when those mental issues will cause some, or them, harm and this is to be expected. It is also to be expected that, sometimes when they have an episode, force may have to be used.
I understand where you are coming from and of course some measures must be used to defuse a volatile situation. However, as I said previously, with some education on people with disabilities, I am sure the cops would be better equipped dealing with them in case of a delicate situation arises.
Regarding the autistic boy, he was out of control in his own classroom. SO what...let it be....he threw paints....things in the classroom. Big Deal! THey can be replaced. He was alone in the class. No one was hurt. Once he is able to control or calm himself even if it takes him an hour, he can be asked to clean up his mess with or without assistance. Then talk to him about his choices whether they were poor or good. Keep in mind, he is 9 years old. Perhaps the staff involved was inexperienced or got scared or "overrreacted." Usually they should know what to do in case of something like this happens. Then again, I dont know the full story as the media often distorts or fails to provide the full picture.
Ok, so if I understand you correctly, if a cop is assigned to a district that has a school that caters to people with mental health issues, then they should receive 4 yrs of psychiatrist training so IF they get called to the school, they will know how to deal with the problem (like the psychiatrist said in the story). Who is going to foot the bill for that? I sure don't want to.....
I think this is a bit extreme but in this case, I would assume this cop probably took some workshops to familarize himself with the people in his community.
Along those same lines then, I guess you feel that:
If there are chinese living in his district, he should learn to speak chinese?
If there are arabs living in his district, he should learn to speak arabic?
If there are portugese in his district, he should learn to speak portugese?
If there are bikers living in his district he should learn MMA so he can deal with them?
...sorry Tboy, we are going off topic here as my focus was on people with mental issues. However, I would assume that the police force would do its best to hire people that would represent its communities well. This applies to many business organizations as well.
And people wonder why the cops want so much money? Hell with those qualifications he could make $500K a year as a translator......
I am not complaining about their incomes. I know they choose this dangerous occupation but I think putting your life in danger everyday deserves to be well compensated.
Regarding the translator's income..hahaha I want to sign up for it!!!! IN reality, thats not true for many of them. I know some translators charge from anywehre 20-65 dollars an hour. I could be wrong but one of my friends is a freelance translator. She charges 55 dollars an hour for her service.
As for expecting the mother to foot the bill, why is that so unreasonable? I didn't have a kid with mental health issues so why should I be expected to foot the bill for his special needs? While we're at it, should we also foot the bill for customization of a house for someone with a wheelchair? if someone has vision problems should we foot the bill for a 72" flat screen TV? I mean hell, our healthcare system doesn't even cover my dentist visit or my glasses and you're telling me you want me to pay for specially trained police to patrol a special needs school? LOL sorry, there's NO way you could get me on board with that.
People with disabilities deserve to be a part of our society. I dont have children but I pay taxes for them to go to school. Is it fair? No. Yet I strongly encourage that expenses be covered in order for them to have equal access to their able-bodied peers. Unfortunately the problem with our society is that it caters to mostly white able bodied men. For example, Deaf people cant use a public phone because its only for people who can hear. Yet hearing people can use it. In the past, TTC refused to name each bus stop to assist people with vision issues. Yet,they are expected to pay the full price. Or closed captioning wasnt available becuase it was considered expensive and deaf people couldnt watch their shows like their peers. Again they were expected to pay the full cable price. Sure, we can tell them not to watch tv. IS it fair? (and no im not living in a dream world) Funny thing, they now provide these services because many researches have indicated they benefit everyone involved.
translators being paid by the hour? hell, things have changed. When I dated a bi LINGUAL french hottie she was paid 20 cents a word and 50 cents for technical manuals....so if she translated your post that would be about $200.00 and would have taken her about 20 minutes......now that was only french to english and english to french. If they were fluent in 5 languages they'd be worth about $1.00 a word. So that post translation would be about $2000.00.
I know you may feel that so what if a kid busts up a classroom. But as I said, who knows how long he'd keep on? Who knows how much damage he'd cause? Who knows if he'd injure himself if he broke a window?
I can guarantee you this: If the cops "just let him run his course" and he injured himself or someone else? The COPS would be in deeper shit than they are now with EVERYone saying "they should have done something they should have done something....".
(one more example of damned if they do and damned if they don't. I tell you, you couldn't PAY me enough to be a cop. You could provide me with 10 of the hottest escorts free of charge every day and I still wouldn't do it......)
I know you may feel that so what if a kid busts up a classroom. But as I said, who knows how long he'd keep on? Who knows how much damage he'd cause? Who knows if he'd injure himself if he broke a window?
I can guarantee you this: If the cops "just let him run his course" and he injured himself or someone else? The COPS would be in deeper shit than they are now with EVERYone saying "they should have done something they should have done something....".
(one more example of damned if they do and damned if they don't. I tell you, you couldn't PAY me enough to be a cop. You could provide me with 10 of the hottest escorts free of charge every day and I still wouldn't do it......)
No shit....hated by most...that is, until you're in trouble and they show up, then they're your best friend......
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