Is this discrimination?

[LisaOfToronto]

I live right across the street from which is sponsored by Purina Pet food.

"Their mission statement:

PawsWay is a one-of-a-kind pet discovery centre devoted to bringing the pet perspective to life. Launched in June 2008, it's a unique place where pet lovers can come together to learn, discover, and celebrate the world of cats and dogs.

PawsWay's mission is to promote the well-being of pets and encourage responsible pet care. It offers a pet-friendly, entertaining, and engaging environment where pet guardians, those considering adding a cat or dog to their home, pet professionals, and anyone interested in pets can explore permanent exhibits, attend special events, participate in themed programming, and discover the world of dogs and cats at the resource centre.

General admission to PawsWay is free and the centre is open year-round."

I been going there for the past couple of years, almost everyday. Not just to Pawsway itself but also to the Williams Coffee Pub located within Pawsway. It's the only place in Toronto where you can bring your dog or cat into the restaurant. Besides enjoying my morning coffee there I visit Pawsway with my dogs for agility training and many of their dog events. I shopped in their store many times, used their photography services and many other services and events.

When my dam was pregnant some of the staff at Pawsway said some rude things to me... like: there is already too many dogs in the world/ they are not purebred. Other staff was understanding and sometimes helpful with advise and such, regarding the puppies when they were born.

I recently put up a printed ad with a picture of my puppies for sale on their advertising board. I specified their mixed breed, DOB, shots and vet health checked, my phone number but did not put price in the ad.

1 day last week I go in there and the manager of Pawsway engages me in a conversation about the puppies. He asked me how many I have left. I tell him and he asks me further if I sold the others. I tell him yes. He asks me how much am I selling them for. I tell him and without a word he just walks away.

Next day I pass by the advertising board and notice my ad is not there. I ask the staff about it and they say they don't know what happened to it. And just to clarify I did ask their permission before posting my ad.


Today I find out from "a reliable source" that my ad was taken down because the management of Pawsway believes I am running a "puppy mill".

Is this discrimination?

 

[Austin]

I am running a "puppy mill".

Are you not?.

 

[JustRiley]

It sounds like miscommincation. I wonder if you could talk to someone and explain to them you were "too late" in getting your dogs spayed and neutered and was trying to get the puppies adopted since your main pup got pregnant. Yes there is an over population of dogs and cats out there even if they are not purbreed or prubreed. But it sounds like they assumed you were a puppy mill because of the price you were asking for the dogs. and since the cost of spay and neutering is expensive unless you are rescuing cats in the new spay and neuteure program the animal service is provide , the low cost clinic is not available to the general public.

 

[LisaOfToronto]

definition of : A puppy mill, sometimes known as a puppy farm,[SUP][1][/SUP] is a commercial dog breeding facility that is operated with an emphasis upon profits above animal welfare and is often in substandard conditions regarding the well-being of dogs in their care


My puppies were born and raised in a luxury condo, with tons of love, 24 hour human attention and interaction. In a clean and safe environment. I feed them the best vet recommended $$$ puppy food, not dust as puppy mills serve. When a puppy at 1 week old got sick I took him to Vet emergency, that cost me $500 + and the puppy died minutes after leaving the vet. (yes I got a beef with that vet too but thats another story) A puppy mill woulda just dump the dog down the toilet without trying to save him.

My puppies are crate trained, but they didn't live out their entire 8 weeks locked in a cage. My condo was puppy proofed and they run around all over the place. My puppies are not crazy like those you buy from a puppy mill. Show me a puppy from a puppy mill that is pee-pad trained and/or at 9 weeks old responds to human commands such as sit, come here, treats, walkies, etc.


To this day my expenses are $1700, includes all expenses such as vet bills, toys, food, carpet cleaning, advertising costs, etc.

I gave 1 puppy away to the ppl who gave me the female dog a year ago
I sold 2 puppies for $700 each

I still have 2 puppies.

The dam was pregnant for 2 months.
When puppies were born I did not sleep properly for at least a good 3 weeks, because I cared for them when ever they needed me 24/7

do a youtube search if you need a better explanation of puppy mills

edit: here you go Puppy Mills:

 

[LisaOfToronto]

It sounds like miscommincation. I wonder if you could talk to someone and explain to them you were "too late" in getting your dogs spayed and neutered and was trying to get the puppies adopted since your main pup got pregnant. Yes there is an over population of dogs and cats out there even if they are not purbreed or prubreed. But it sounds like they assumed you were a puppy mill because of the price you were asking for the dogs. and since the cost of spay and neutering is expensive unless you are rescuing cats in the new spay and neuteure program the animal service is provide , the low cost clinic is not available to the general public.

Riley, thanks for your input, however I am not obligated to explain to anyone why my dogs bred. If I want my dogs to breed I can. I can do it for whatever reason I want. There are no laws against breeding your own dogs as far as I know.

My puppies home:

 

[Madman]

Riley, thanks for your input, however I am not obligated to explain to anyone why my dogs bred. If I want my dogs to breed I can. I can do it for whatever reason I want. There are no laws against breeding your own dogs as far as I know.

You are absolutely correct, it's none of their business.

 

[Buckfifty]

Sue them.

 

[BEER]

Sue them.

LOL my money is that she will :dontknow:

 

[a 1 player]

https://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_90h19_e.htm

[h=1]Discrimination & Harassment - Definitions
[/h]
The following definitions may be helpful in determining whether you or someone you know is experiencing discrimination or harassment:
[h=3]Discrimination[/h] The Ontario Human Rights Code (OHRC) does not provide a definition for the term discrimination. However, the intent and meaning of the Code along with interpretations of the term contained in judicial decisions suggest that, discrimination is differential treatment based on a personal characteristic which has an adverse impact on an individual or group. Examples of personal characteristics include race, ancestry, place of origin, colour, ethnic origin, citizenship, creed, sex, sexual orientation, age, marital status, family status or disability.
Discrimination robs people of their dignity and their ability to fulfill their capabilities. It is important to note that any person or group can discriminate and any person or group can be the target of discrimination. Discrimination can take on several forms:
Sexual Discrimination - includes discrimination on the basis of gender, sex, sexual orientation, etc.
Racial Discrimination - includes discrimination on the basis of race, ancestry, place of origin, colour, ethnic origin, citizenship, creed, etc.
Discrimination on the basis of Disability - involves discrimination against a person on the basis of their physical, psychological or mental ability or impairment.
[h=3]Harassment[/h] The Ontario Human Rights Code defines harassment as "engaging in a course of vexatious comment or conduct that is known or ought reasonably to be known to be unwelcome". This definition has been adopted by The University of Western Ontario in its human rights and equity policies.
The following definitions may further assist with understanding the term harassment and what it entails:
"a course" - in most cases, there must be more than one incident for behaviour to be defined as harassment. However, courts in Canada have found that a single unwelcome incident, if serious enough, can be sufficient to support a harassment complaint.
"vexatious"- unwelcome and has little or no useful, legitimate purpose in the context in which it takes place.
"comment or conduct" - the use of the two terms - comment or conduct - includes actions and words. The actions or words may or may not be aimed at the person complaining of harassment; they may not be aimed at anyone at all. If they are unwelcome and create a poisoned environment, they could be considered harassment.
"known or ought reasonably to be known" - this phrase encompasses both a subjective and objective element. Even if a person is not aware that her behaviour is unwelcome (subjective), if a reasonable person in the same situation would have known that the behaviour was unwelcome, then that person "ought reasonably to have known" that her behaviour was unwelcome.
"unwelcome" - this simply means that the person who has brought the complaint does not wish to be exposed to the behaviour. Unwelcome is in the eye of the beholder.
Harassment is often an abuse of social power, but it is important to remember that any person can harass any other person. Harassment is often defined to include any behavior that creates an intimidating, demeaning or hostile environment. Harassment can take on different forms:
Sexual Harassment - includes harassment on the basis of sex, gender or sexual orientation.
Racial Harassment - includes harassment on the basis of race, ancestry, place of origin, colour, ethnic origin, citizenship, creed, etc.
General Harassment - includes harassing behavior not on any of the grounds discussed above (i.e. bullying or personal harassment).

Based on the descriptions from the Ontario Human Rights Commission, you were neither discriminated nor harassed.

 

[LisaOfToronto]

https://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_90h19_e.htm

Discrimination & Harassment - Definitions



The following definitions may be helpful in determining whether you or someone you know is experiencing discrimination or harassment:
Discrimination

The Ontario Human Rights Code (OHRC) does not provide a definition for the term discrimination. However, the intent and meaning of the Code along with interpretations of the term contained in judicial decisions suggest that, discrimination is differential treatment based on a personal characteristic which has an adverse impact on an individual or group. Examples of personal characteristics include race, ancestry, place of origin, colour, ethnic origin, citizenship, creed, sex, sexual orientation, age, marital status, family status or disability.
Discrimination robs people of their dignity and their ability to fulfill their capabilities. It is important to note that any person or group can discriminate and any person or group can be the target of discrimination. Discrimination can take on several forms:
Sexual Discrimination - includes discrimination on the basis of gender, sex, sexual orientation, etc.
Racial Discrimination - includes discrimination on the basis of race, ancestry, place of origin, colour, ethnic origin, citizenship, creed, etc.
Discrimination on the basis of Disability - involves discrimination against a person on the basis of their physical, psychological or mental ability or impairment.

Based on the descriptions from the Ontario Human Rights Commission, you were neither discriminated nor harassed.

Thanks A1, but did you actually read what you posted? Cuz if I am understanding this part correctly:

Harassment

The Ontario Human Rights Code defines harassment as "engaging in a course of vexatious comment or conduct that is known or ought reasonably to be known to be unwelcome". This definition has been adopted by The University of Western Ontario in its human rights and equity policies.
The following definitions may further assist with understanding the term harassment and what it entails:
"a course" - in most cases, there must be more than one incident for behaviour to be defined as harassment. However, courts in Canada have found that a single unwelcome incident, if serious enough, can be sufficient to support a harassment complaint.
"vexatious"- unwelcome and has little or no useful, legitimate purpose in the context in which it takes place.
"comment or conduct" - the use of the two terms - comment or conduct - includes actions and words. The actions or words may or may not be aimed at the person complaining of harassment; they may not be aimed at anyone at all. If they are unwelcome and create a poisoned environment, they could be considered harassment.
"known or ought reasonably to be known" - this phrase encompasses both a subjective and objective element. Even if a person is not aware that her behaviour is unwelcome (subjective), if a reasonable person in the same situation would have known that the behaviour was unwelcome, then that person "ought reasonably to have known" that her behaviour was unwelcome.
"unwelcome" - this simply means that the person who has brought the complaint does not wish to be exposed to the behaviour. Unwelcome is in the eye of the beholder.
Harassment is often an abuse of social power, but it is important to remember that any person can harass any other person. Harassment is often defined to include any behavior that creates an intimidating, demeaning or hostile environment.

"a course" - in most cases, there must be more than one incident for behaviour to be defined as harassment. However, courts in Canada have found that a single unwelcome incident, if serious enough, can be sufficient to support a harassment complaint.
as I said in my OP: When my dam was pregnant some of the staff at Pawsway said some rude things to me... like: there is already too many dogs in the world/ they are not purebred. (on a side note: some thoughts...funny, seems the vet charges the same prices for purebreds, mixed breeds, mutts etc. yet everyone discriminates against dogs other than pure breeds)

+: manager engages me in conversation about puppy prices then just simply walks away without a word
+: the taking down of my ad shortly after that

"vexatious"- unwelcome and has little or no useful, legitimate purpose in the context in which it takes place.

most certainly all above mentioned interactions were unwelcome by me...ever since the 1st comments, (and there were a few more) I feel very strange frequenting the place, but my dogs love it so I didn't wanna stir the pot

"comment or conduct" - the use of the two terms - comment or conduct - includes actions and words. The actions or words may or may not be aimed at the person complaining of harassment; they may not be aimed at anyone at all. If they are unwelcome and create a poisoned environment, they could be considered harassment.

I feel like I enter a poisoned environment when I go to pawsway for the past few months. Plus the staff always seems to surprise me. 1 time I brought 1 of the puppies and the young lady (staff) says: oh wow cute puppy, how many did she have?, what are you going to do with them? I tell her some Im giving away, some Im selling, 1 I might keep. She says something along the line: well I hope you are not doing this to make money. I just kinda shook my head and thought WTF...I wanted to ask her if she volunteers her time at Pawsway or if she is a paid employee...but I held my tongue.


"known or ought reasonably to be known" - this phrase encompasses both a subjective and objective element. Even if a person is not aware that her behaviour is unwelcome (subjective), if a reasonable person in the same situation would have known that the behaviour was unwelcome, then that person "ought reasonably to have known" that her behaviour was unwelcome.
"unwelcome" - this simply means that the person who has brought the complaint does not wish to be exposed to the behaviour. Unwelcome is in the eye of the beholder.
Harassment is often an abuse of social power, but it is important to remember that any person can harass any other person. Harassment is often defined to include any behavior that creates an intimidating, demeaning or hostile environment.

Manager most certainly should have known his type of behaviour is unwelcome and harassing in nature.

Why.... all the other ads/business cards are still up?.... breeders, real estate agents, pet stores, all kinds of small and private home businesses such as boarding, dog walkers, cat sitters, etc. Only my ad was taken down by management.

Pawsway appearently promotes the well being of dogs. You'd think that for an individual like me who's shown unconditional love to my puppies, Pawsway would recognize ..since it's mostly pet lovers who visit the place ...that my puppies would find a good home via their bulletin board. So why are they preventing me? Seems like some sort of unfair and selective treatment.

I've been frequenting the place for the past 2 years. I've shown nothing but responsible ownership of my dogs and puppies. I m like the furthest from a puppy mill + they know I live accross the street (on the Harbourfront is nothing but prime real estate) which puppy mill exist in a luxury condo? ...which puppy mill buys their dogs $50 coats, $30 shoes (balloons) $10 each chewing toy, $5 each pic, $38 harness leash, all purchased at Pawsway shop? It's not like they don't know. I buy stuff from there all the time...1 time I run out of pee-pads and the nearest place that supplied them is Pawsway..it was something like $14 for 10 or 15 pee-pads...I bought them cuz I needed them...I never heard of any puppy mill spending this kinda of money on their dogs as their primary goal is emphasis upon profits above animal welfare.

My primary goal in regards to my dogs and puppies is their health & happiness. If it was all about profit I certainly would not have given away a puppy, that was at least of $700 value to me. After losing a pup + $500 vet bill...it's a doubly whammy.

At the end of the day...even if I sell the next 2 puppies at $700 each = 1400$ +$1400 for the 2 puppies sold. =$2800 total
My overhead is at $1700 right now and growing ....and does not include the hours i spent birthing, raising puppies if I paid myself/or someone else a wage over the past 9 weeks.

So where is the huge profit? where are the filthy puppy mill like conditions I am accused off.. by being labled as a puppy mill?...with that word being spread around in the neighbourhood and at pawsway..not cool. As you can see by my time stamp...I am actually losing sleep over this ;-(

I'll probably be in touch with a lawyer soon.

 

[Guido]

I don't know if you're case would stand in court but it does seem you are being treated unfairly. Try speaking with the manager directly so you hear his side first hand.

 

[a 1 player]

The idea and intent behind the harassment laws is to ensure that all are treated equally on the grounds of human rights. If one disagrees with what you are doing, or the way one is acting (and I am not using you as an example, just generally), they can choose either to deal or not deal with the person in question. Offering an opinion such as 'there are already too many dog in the world', is much different than saying, 'you are a fucking idiot for breeding dogs'. The second being, 'unwelcome and unwanted'.

In my opinion, (and I deal with this as part of my career), if anything was not done correctly it would be at the store level, and probably because employees were not trained well in customer service. I don't see anything that stands out as being harassment. Sorry. Just my opinion though.