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It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.
[h=1]Ukraine Separatist Leader Boasts Of Downing Plane[/h]
https://www.rferl.org/content/ukraine-separatist-leader-boasts-downing-plane/25460930.html
https://www.rferl.org/content/ukraine-separatist-leader-boasts-downing-plane/25460930.html
A Malaysian airliner carrying 295 people has crashed in east Ukraine on a flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, amid allegations it was shot down.
Bodies are scattered around what is believed to be the wreckage of the jet near the village of Grabovo, which is under the control of separatist rebels.
Flight MH17 had been due to enter Russian airspace when contact was lost.
Ukraine's president called the loss of the plane an "act of terrorism" as the rebels denied shooting it down.
The separatists are believed to have shot down two Ukrainian military planes over the region in recent days.
There is no official closure of Ukraine airspace but Germany's Lufthansa, Air France and Turkish Airlines are all now avoiding eastern Ukraine.
A defence expert has told the BBC that shooting down a plane at 10,000m (32,000ft) would have required a long- range surface-to-air missile - possibly guided by radar.
That suggests it is unlikely it could have been downed by a portable air defence missile, or Manpad, which has a much shorter range.
The only other possibility is for an aircraft at that height to be downed by a fighter carrying air-to-air missiles.
The US will have access to satellite imagery that should be able to identify ultra-violet plumes if a long-range surface-to-air missile was fired.
Russia's emergency services have reportedly asked the Ukrainian government for permission to work at the crash site.
Malaysia's Prime Minister Najib Razak spoke of his shock and said he was launching an immediate inquiry into the crash.
US President Barack Obama has said the crash of the airliner was a "terrible tragedy" and that US officials were trying to establish if any Americans had been on board.
Mr Obama spoke to Russian President Vladimir Putin about the crash earlier, the Kremlin said in a (in Russian).
'Then a bang'
The plane fell between Krasni Luch in Luhansk region and Shakhtarsk in the neighbouring region of Donetsk.
Anton Herashchenko, an adviser to Ukraine's interior minister, was quoted by the Associated Press as saying the plane had been hit by a missile at an altitude of 10,000m (32,000ft). The claim could not be verified independently.
At least 100 bodies have been found so far at the scene, an emergencies worker told Reuters news agency at the scene, with wreckage spread across an area of up to about 15km (nine miles) in diameter.
Broken pieces of the wings were marked with blue and red paint - the same colours as the emblem of the Malaysian airline, the agency said.
"I was working in the field on my tractor when I heard the sound of a plane and then a bang and shots," a witness called Vladimir told Reuters.
"Then I saw the plane hit the ground and break in two. There was thick black smoke."
A separatist rebel from nearby Krasnyi Luch who gave his name as Sergei said: "From my balcony I saw a plane begin to descend from a great height and then heard two explosions."
Denials
Ukraine has accused Russia's military of supplying advanced missiles to the rebels.
Earlier on Thursday, Ukrainian officials blamed the Russian air force for shooting down one of its ground attack jets on Wednesday, and a transport plane on Monday.
Confirming the crash, Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko said:
"The Ukrainian armed forces did not attempt to shoot down targets in the air."
Separatist leader Alexander Borodai accused the government of downing the airliner itself.
"Apparently, it's a passenger airliner indeed, truly shot down by the Ukrainian air force," he told Russia's state-run Rossiya 24 TV broadcaster.
The UK Foreign Office said it was aware of the reports of the crash and was "urgently working to establish what has happened".
Russia implicated?
Sir Tony Brenton, a former UK ambassador to Russia, told BBC News it would not be a huge surprise if suspicion initially fell on the rebels.
"That would be very damaging both for them and for their Russian supporters," he said.
"The Russians have undoubtedly been supplying them with weapons, almost certainly with anti-aircraft weapons, so Russia would very likely be implicated and that would raise the volume of international criticism of Russia."
This is also the second plane crash involving a Malaysian airliner this year, following the disappearance of Flight MH370 to Beijing in March.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28354856
Bodies are scattered around what is believed to be the wreckage of the jet near the village of Grabovo, which is under the control of separatist rebels.
Flight MH17 had been due to enter Russian airspace when contact was lost.
Ukraine's president called the loss of the plane an "act of terrorism" as the rebels denied shooting it down.
The separatists are believed to have shot down two Ukrainian military planes over the region in recent days.
There is no official closure of Ukraine airspace but Germany's Lufthansa, Air France and Turkish Airlines are all now avoiding eastern Ukraine.
A defence expert has told the BBC that shooting down a plane at 10,000m (32,000ft) would have required a long- range surface-to-air missile - possibly guided by radar.
That suggests it is unlikely it could have been downed by a portable air defence missile, or Manpad, which has a much shorter range.
The only other possibility is for an aircraft at that height to be downed by a fighter carrying air-to-air missiles.
The US will have access to satellite imagery that should be able to identify ultra-violet plumes if a long-range surface-to-air missile was fired.
Russia's emergency services have reportedly asked the Ukrainian government for permission to work at the crash site.
Malaysia's Prime Minister Najib Razak spoke of his shock and said he was launching an immediate inquiry into the crash.
US President Barack Obama has said the crash of the airliner was a "terrible tragedy" and that US officials were trying to establish if any Americans had been on board.
Mr Obama spoke to Russian President Vladimir Putin about the crash earlier, the Kremlin said in a (in Russian).
'Then a bang'
The plane fell between Krasni Luch in Luhansk region and Shakhtarsk in the neighbouring region of Donetsk.
Anton Herashchenko, an adviser to Ukraine's interior minister, was quoted by the Associated Press as saying the plane had been hit by a missile at an altitude of 10,000m (32,000ft). The claim could not be verified independently.
At least 100 bodies have been found so far at the scene, an emergencies worker told Reuters news agency at the scene, with wreckage spread across an area of up to about 15km (nine miles) in diameter.
Broken pieces of the wings were marked with blue and red paint - the same colours as the emblem of the Malaysian airline, the agency said.
"I was working in the field on my tractor when I heard the sound of a plane and then a bang and shots," a witness called Vladimir told Reuters.
"Then I saw the plane hit the ground and break in two. There was thick black smoke."
A separatist rebel from nearby Krasnyi Luch who gave his name as Sergei said: "From my balcony I saw a plane begin to descend from a great height and then heard two explosions."
Denials
Ukraine has accused Russia's military of supplying advanced missiles to the rebels.
Earlier on Thursday, Ukrainian officials blamed the Russian air force for shooting down one of its ground attack jets on Wednesday, and a transport plane on Monday.
Confirming the crash, Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko said:
"The Ukrainian armed forces did not attempt to shoot down targets in the air."
Separatist leader Alexander Borodai accused the government of downing the airliner itself.
"Apparently, it's a passenger airliner indeed, truly shot down by the Ukrainian air force," he told Russia's state-run Rossiya 24 TV broadcaster.
The UK Foreign Office said it was aware of the reports of the crash and was "urgently working to establish what has happened".
Russia implicated?
Sir Tony Brenton, a former UK ambassador to Russia, told BBC News it would not be a huge surprise if suspicion initially fell on the rebels.
"That would be very damaging both for them and for their Russian supporters," he said.
"The Russians have undoubtedly been supplying them with weapons, almost certainly with anti-aircraft weapons, so Russia would very likely be implicated and that would raise the volume of international criticism of Russia."
This is also the second plane crash involving a Malaysian airliner this year, following the disappearance of Flight MH370 to Beijing in March.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28354856
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Al Bumin
Guest
McGuinty said:
It already begun, mark my words.
Ajax man dies in Ukraine plane crash
https://www.torontosun.com/2014/07/18/ajax-man-dies-in-ukraine-plane-crash
https://www.torontosun.com/2014/07/18/ajax-man-dies-in-ukraine-plane-crash
Beef Jerky
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- Joined
- Feb 25, 2012
- Messages
- 1,405
[h=1]MH17 scene was ‘a sea of women and children’: Tapes show moment rebels realized jet wasn’t military, Ukraine says[/h]
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Beef Jerky said:
That was powerful to watch and listen to.
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Boing
Guest
Sara Firth, a longstanding London-based correspondent for Russia Today, resigned on Friday in protest at the channel’s coverage of the Malaysia Airlines crash.
Firth, who joined the channel in 2009, told BuzzFeed that she decided to resign from the Kremlin-funded news channel because she felt it was “disrespectfully” attempting to pin the blame for Thursday’s Malaysia Airlines disaster on the Ukrainian government.
“When this story broke I ran back into the newsroom and saw how we were covering it already and I just knew I had to go,” she said.
“It was the total disregard to the facts. We threw up eyewitness accounts from someone on the ground openly accusing the Ukrainian government [of involvement in the disaster], and a correspondent in the studio pulled up a plane crash before that the Ukrainian government had been involved in and said it was ‘worth mentioning’.
“It’s not worth mentioning. It’s Russia Today all over, it’s flirting with that border of overtly lying. You’re not telling a lie, you’re just bringing something up. I didn’t want to watch a story like that, where people have lost loved ones and we’re handling it like that.
“I couldn’t do it any more. Every single day we’re lying and finding sexier ways to do it.”
All of the story:
https://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/...-ukranian?bffb
Firth, who joined the channel in 2009, told BuzzFeed that she decided to resign from the Kremlin-funded news channel because she felt it was “disrespectfully” attempting to pin the blame for Thursday’s Malaysia Airlines disaster on the Ukrainian government.
“When this story broke I ran back into the newsroom and saw how we were covering it already and I just knew I had to go,” she said.
“It was the total disregard to the facts. We threw up eyewitness accounts from someone on the ground openly accusing the Ukrainian government [of involvement in the disaster], and a correspondent in the studio pulled up a plane crash before that the Ukrainian government had been involved in and said it was ‘worth mentioning’.
“It’s not worth mentioning. It’s Russia Today all over, it’s flirting with that border of overtly lying. You’re not telling a lie, you’re just bringing something up. I didn’t want to watch a story like that, where people have lost loved ones and we’re handling it like that.
“I couldn’t do it any more. Every single day we’re lying and finding sexier ways to do it.”
All of the story:
https://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/...-ukranian?bffb
What are the odds on this one?.
SYDNEY (AP) — In an almost incomprehensible twist of fate, an Australian woman who lost her brother in the disappearance of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 learned on Friday that her stepdaughter was on the plane shot down over Ukraine.
Kaylene Mann's brother Rod Burrows and sister-in-law Mary Burrows were on board Flight 370 when it vanished in March. On Friday, Mann found out that her stepdaughter, Maree Rizk, was killed along with 297 others on Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, which U.S. intelligence authorities believe was shot down by a surface-to-air missile.
"It's just brought everyone, everything back," said Greg Burrows, Mann's brother. "It's just ... ripped our guts again."
Burrows said his family was struggling to understand how they could be struck by such horrible luck on two separate occasions with the same airline.
"She just lost a brother and now a stepdaughter, so..." he said of his sister, his voice trailing off.
Rizk and her husband Albert, of Melbourne, were returning home from a four-week holiday in Europe, said Phil Lithgow, president of the Sunbury Football Club, with which the family was heavily involved. Albert, a real estate agent, was a member of the club's committee, Maree was a volunteer in the canteen and their son, James, plays on the club's team.
Photos: Malaysia Airlines passenger jet brought down in Ukraine
"They were very lovely people," Lithgow said. "You wouldn't hear a bad word about them — very generous with their time in the community, very community-minded, and just really very entertaining people to be with."
The club members planned to wear black armbands and observe a minute of silence to honor the Rizks at their game on Saturday, Lithgow said.
Despite the twin tragedies, Burrows said he holds nothing against Malaysia Airlines.
"Nobody could predict they were going to get shot down," he said. "That was out of their hands."
https://news.msn.com/world/woman-lose...-air-disasters
SYDNEY (AP) — In an almost incomprehensible twist of fate, an Australian woman who lost her brother in the disappearance of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 learned on Friday that her stepdaughter was on the plane shot down over Ukraine.
Kaylene Mann's brother Rod Burrows and sister-in-law Mary Burrows were on board Flight 370 when it vanished in March. On Friday, Mann found out that her stepdaughter, Maree Rizk, was killed along with 297 others on Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, which U.S. intelligence authorities believe was shot down by a surface-to-air missile.
"It's just brought everyone, everything back," said Greg Burrows, Mann's brother. "It's just ... ripped our guts again."
Burrows said his family was struggling to understand how they could be struck by such horrible luck on two separate occasions with the same airline.
"She just lost a brother and now a stepdaughter, so..." he said of his sister, his voice trailing off.
Rizk and her husband Albert, of Melbourne, were returning home from a four-week holiday in Europe, said Phil Lithgow, president of the Sunbury Football Club, with which the family was heavily involved. Albert, a real estate agent, was a member of the club's committee, Maree was a volunteer in the canteen and their son, James, plays on the club's team.
Photos: Malaysia Airlines passenger jet brought down in Ukraine
"They were very lovely people," Lithgow said. "You wouldn't hear a bad word about them — very generous with their time in the community, very community-minded, and just really very entertaining people to be with."
The club members planned to wear black armbands and observe a minute of silence to honor the Rizks at their game on Saturday, Lithgow said.
Despite the twin tragedies, Burrows said he holds nothing against Malaysia Airlines.
"Nobody could predict they were going to get shot down," he said. "That was out of their hands."
https://news.msn.com/world/woman-lose...-air-disasters
Silvio Burlusconi
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 7, 2013
- Messages
- 152
Not defending anyone but.....
A) Why does any commercial aircraft choose to fly over a war zone?
B) Why does American media and the President's address about this portray the "separatists" (or terrorists if you prefer) as not being able to do this? Was the portion of the Ukrainian army that left with Crimea just grunts and stupid people or were there maybe technicians and capable people among this group?
C) Regards to Ms. Firth, what about RT that you found so distasteful again? In all your years of working for RT didn't you figure out that RT is the new "Pravda" that disseminates the propaganda of the Russian government? Where was your journalistic integrity then?
A) Why does any commercial aircraft choose to fly over a war zone?
B) Why does American media and the President's address about this portray the "separatists" (or terrorists if you prefer) as not being able to do this? Was the portion of the Ukrainian army that left with Crimea just grunts and stupid people or were there maybe technicians and capable people among this group?
C) Regards to Ms. Firth, what about RT that you found so distasteful again? In all your years of working for RT didn't you figure out that RT is the new "Pravda" that disseminates the propaganda of the Russian government? Where was your journalistic integrity then?
MH17 and MH370: Dutch cyclist booked to fly on both doomed Malaysia Airlines planes
De Jonge told Netherlands public broadcaster RTV Oost : “I could have taken that one just as easily.
“It’s inconceivable. I am very sorry for the passengers and their families, yet I am very pleased I’m unharmed.”
A statement translated from Dutch on his said that he was “overwhelmed” with responses to his story but for now would like the focus to shift back to the victims and their families.
“How happy I am for myself and my family that I was on this flight and did not take it the last moment; my story is ultimately nothing compared to the misery in which so many people are dead,” he said.
“Attention should be paid to the victims and survivors. Wishing everyone affected by this disaster a lot of strength.”
De Jonge still plans to fly back to Malaysia today on a Malaysia Airlines flight via Frankfurt and told RTV Oost that he was not worried about it, “I have been lucky twice.”
“You should try not to worry too much because then you won’t get anywhere,” he said.
De Jonge told Netherlands public broadcaster RTV Oost : “I could have taken that one just as easily.
“It’s inconceivable. I am very sorry for the passengers and their families, yet I am very pleased I’m unharmed.”
A statement translated from Dutch on his said that he was “overwhelmed” with responses to his story but for now would like the focus to shift back to the victims and their families.
“How happy I am for myself and my family that I was on this flight and did not take it the last moment; my story is ultimately nothing compared to the misery in which so many people are dead,” he said.
“Attention should be paid to the victims and survivors. Wishing everyone affected by this disaster a lot of strength.”
De Jonge still plans to fly back to Malaysia today on a Malaysia Airlines flight via Frankfurt and told RTV Oost that he was not worried about it, “I have been lucky twice.”
“You should try not to worry too much because then you won’t get anywhere,” he said.
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What a bizarre situation.
Watching the news tonight, journalists sifting through the wreckage found unbroken bottles of alcohol from the duty free shops in people's luggage. How can a bottle fall that far and not break?
Silly detail to notice, I know.
Watching the news tonight, journalists sifting through the wreckage found unbroken bottles of alcohol from the duty free shops in people's luggage. How can a bottle fall that far and not break?
Silly detail to notice, I know.
