Safety

[Kyra.Graves]

Hi Guys and Gals,

After a recent issue I thought I would post something here to see what your thoughts are and perhaps get an interesting discussion going on what you would like to see in this industry and how you would balance that with concerns the lady you are going to meet with having different concerns and interests.

Everyone in this industry has concerns over meeting someone new, privacy, health, welfare, etc. and we all take different steps to ensure we are comfortable in our environment and that we are confident we can place a certain amount of trust in the person we are going to meet. For myself these concerns are generally about my mental and physical well being and I prefer to meet with those that understand my concerns and will at a minimum try to understand them and work towards helping me feel comfortable on our date much as I will do my best to do the same for them.

Personally screening and verification can vary based on the date details, most ladies I know are rather fluid in their requirements. If I am in the US I require references, P411 or Date-check, etc. but in Canada I often ask for a reference or confirmation via the hotel or for incall I will likely confirm your contact information. I understand that many clients do not wish to hand out contact information to a lady they have not met and for that reason I also offer outcalls to your hotel, the verification is done though a call to the room via the front desk, the hotel will have your information on file and even when you pay cash you'll be expected to provide ID to the hotel.

As for meeting at a secondary location, restaurant, theatre, etc. I often do this as well, I require verification through the hotel in order to confirm the date, restaurant reservations do not require ID and in the unfortunate situation that something should happen between the restaurant and the hotel I would at least prefer someone knowing where I was and that meeting "Jack" at the restaurant is his actual name. As for logistics I personally will only travel with clients I have not previously met in a taxi or other public mode of transportation, for me this is a real and valid safety concern and something I would not compromise on. Of course once I've met someone a few times and had a chance to exchange additional emails, words, etc. with them there is generally a trust that has developed and I have gone on traveled in a car with them. I hate to even consider how I would escape from a moving car if I needed too, as much as a hotel may be risky as well as a female I've always felt safer in them as I have a few options to escape or get help that I would not have once I have been taken to a private, controlled and secluded area.

I've been in this industry for a few years now and still have what I consider reasonable concerns for my safety each time I meet someone new, there is always the media report of the lady that was murdered, other ladies that have been assaulted (and I see far too many complaints of this on the bad date lists in both Canada and the US) and otherwise violated. I understand a clients need for privacy but I also feel I need to balance that with my own concerns for my safety, I would much rather not see someone than see a person that I feel isn't concerned for my safety and well being.

I wonder what security measures you gentleman would recommend, what steps the ladies take and perhaps we could have an open discussion on what information is okay to share, what one should do when faced with a potential issue and what changes should be made in the industry.

Thanks!

 

[ShowmeThemoney]

Good post. Most clients are married and have a hard time giving out personal information. Saying that, you also deserve to play it safe. There are some real jerks out there. Don't most agencies and sp not book a client if they call from a private number?. It has been years since my last sp so I don't know the protocol as much.

 

[Guido]

Hi sexy.

Have you ever had a bad experience with a client.

 

[Bubba]

Kyra, you have a nice ass :go:

 

[tboy]

I thought the post was really long until I saw there were a couple of repeats in there lol....whew....

I for one have no problem giving a lady my real name, as I only deal with reputable independants and agencies. (hence why I stay away from oriental run here today gone tomorrow agencies). The indies and agencies I deal with I trust to the point that I would have no problem providing my home address and DL number.

The health and safety of the women should be of utmost importance hence why I wholeheartedly agree with a group incall if she's indie, or a "cat house" (for lack of a better term) in a red light district. It would be SO easy to have bouncers on staff and set up the location so that the lady can call and book a room with a client. The rooms could be equipped with multiple panic buttons to call for help if needed.

This is one reason I disagree 100% with the bawdy house laws. Now I don't think someone should be allowed to set up an incall wherever they want, but this would eliminate a LOT of the issues with safety.

I personally don't know how you ladies do it, and have total respect and admiration for many. Having met Miss Graves in person I feel that anyone who would do her harm should be summarily taken out behind the building and have his teeth knocked out......(but I digress, anyone who would do any woman harm should be given the same treatment).

I think the number one "asset" a woman has is her gut instinct. The second there is any inkling of concern the date should be cancelled no ifs ands or buts. I know many need the money etc but there is more to life than money.

 

[Insertion]

Can other SP tell us how you handle this.

 

[Chunky]

It's a tough wild world, kyra.

 

[Kyra.Graves]

First sorry about the double post - I wrote it in word originally and copied it wrong when I went to post.

Good post. Most clients are married and have a hard time giving out personal information. Saying that, you also deserve to play it safe. There are some real jerks out there. Don't most agencies and sp not book a client if they call from a private number?. It has been years since my last sp so I don't know the protocol as much.

I can't speak for each agency but most independents and agencies I know will mention they will not answer blocked or private calls, as I don't advertise my number it's not really an issue for me but for others I believe that is the norm.

I appreciate your thoughts on this as I do think it's something worth thinking about and I know we all have our own opinions and levels of acceptable risk. In the US I would certainly insist on your personal info and in general this is the norm, I will see someone if they have a good reputation on P411 or date-check but I will still confirm their information with other reputable ladies. Now in Canada this is not the norm and I think that is up to the individual if they want to join a site like that, personally I am a fan of the reference system if only because it can allow clients a certain level of privacy while still building a good reputation.
So what about booking at hotels? As I don't host in my home anyway I feel that whether incall or outcall being in a hotel offers some sort of security, all hotels will have cameras, they have a record of who is there and often there is someone that is only a shout away.

I am going to assume that as clients you are a bit like us ladies in what information you will or will not divulge and make the decision based on reputation and comfort level, ie. a TOFTT may not be given the same information that a lady with a strong reputation in the industry is given. What factors help you as a client feel safe, do you base it on communication with the lady, reviews of others, a combination of the two?

Hi sexy.

Have you ever had a bad experience with a client.

I guess that would depend on how you define bad but like any job I've ever had in my life it's not always roses in this industry, however on the whole I enjoy it more than filing papers.

It's a tough wild world, kyra.

True but it's important to consider Safety when we Dance.


As an aside HOF have you ever thought of wearing a jester suit for halloween? :he:

 

[Trump]

Have you ever refused a client if he did not meet your safety issues?.

 

[Macho Man]

Hi Kyra. What made you post this. Anyone giving you trouble?.

 

[FUKUMAN]

Have you discussed these issues with other girls. If so, what do they say?.

 

[Kyra.Graves]

Have you ever refused a client if he did not meet your safety issues?.

All the time, I suspect it's fairly common for most agencies and ladies to decline a date because the information they requested wasn't provided - and that information can vary between different ladies/agencies a great deal.
I don't visit private homes, there are some clients that will contact me and ask for an outcall to their house. I will explain the option of getting a hotel or visiting me in a hotel but as some people are not comfortable with that we do not end up meeting.
On every visit I've ever done to the US I have someone that will contact asking to see me but unwilling to provide references or verification info, I am not comfortable with that so we do not meet.
I've had various situations and could go on for awhile with specifics but in general most ladies decline dates because their "spidey senses" were tingling, it's often the language someone uses and how they interact with you. I've seen a number of new people that didn't have references but their willingness to find a solution and understanding my concerns and being willing to meet me halfway made the difference.

Hi Kyra. What made you post this. Anyone giving you trouble?.

As I mentioned at the beginning I did have a recent issue and I thought that it would make an interesting discussion as I think finding a good balance between meeting a ladies expectations for safety and a clients desire for anonymity is difficult for most of us. The recent issue I faced wasn't something I am overly concerned over, honestly the specifics of the situation didn't make a lot of sense to me so I passed on the date. I didn't want this to become a discussion of my personal requirements though but was hoping that others might be willing to share their thoughts on the matter as a whole.

 

[a 1 player]

Excellent thread Kyra!

I of course can only speak for myself, but here are some of the things that I would feel comfortable doing in order to provide info to a potential SP, and a few things I would not feel comfortable doing.

Comfortable

Providing a reference from another SP.
Providing a cellular phone number.
Providing an e-mail address
Meeting in a public location
Going to an incall location, (many of which have video in the lobby)
Meeting in my hotel room, (or yours)

Not comfortable

Providing legal identification
Providing home phone number
Providing place of employment

Trust between complete strangers is a very delicate issue for both parties involved, and in many circumstances most difficult to find a middle ground. The safety of the SP is of course paramount, but the privacy of the client must be upheld also. There have probably been, (I would guess), nearly as many cases as an unsavory SP exploiting and extorting from an unsuspecting john as there are cases of a client threatening or causing violence against the worker. I personally know of three of the former, including one against myself, therefore I am wary against meeting anyone 'new', who has not been well reviewed, or from a 'sketchy' agency.

I would love to hear others thoughts as well.

 

[Art Mann]

NIcely put, a 1 player.

To the Not Comfortable list I would add:
• Hosting outcall in personal residence shared with an SO

Mutual safety, welfare and discretion are paramount.

Your personal guidelines reveal great common sense, Miss Kyra.

 

[Iambad]

It has been years since my last sp so I don't know the protocol as much.

It has been many months for me for personal reasons, but I have a question.

Kyra, have you ever had to call the cops because of a John bothering you or worried that he will?.

 

[Kyra.Graves]

A1 and Artmann - thank you for the input, in general I would say I have similar guidelines in Canada. Have any of you joined a site like P411 in order to use the references the ladies offer or do you prefer ladies contact someone privately?

Have you discussed these issues with other girls. If so, what do they say?.

Many ladies I know have similar guidelines as myself but that isn't surprising as I tend to network with ladies that have a similar business model as my own as it's what I am comfortable with and likely what my clients are comfortable with as well. There are a number of ladies in the industry that I do not know, will likely not meet and they will have very different business structures in order to attract a different clientele, many of these ladies would have different policies on how to arrange a date and I was wondering about the broader scope and what your experiences and preferences are as a client.

It has been many months for me for personal reasons, but I have a question.

Kyra, have you ever had to call the cops because of a John bothering you or worried that he will?.

Do I know John?

 

[LickingGravity]

This is related but I recently had what I considered an over-the-top request. I was talking to a lady who requested her standard clearance package which was very extensive but really just paperwork and somewhat tedious. We happened to be in a group with another well known sp at the time whom I have known for over five years and seen maybe more than a dozen times. Enough that I know her real name etc. I suggested to the first lady that all she had to do was get a reference from the second lady, who was right there. I thought a reference from someone you knew and trusted was better than filling out a form on a website. Apparently not. Seemed silly. Perhaps its because lady one doesn't have enough experience and doesn't trust her own gut instincts to deviate from a set procedure.

Another thought. It always seemed to me that the information provided was rarely verified and it was more about demonstrating the willingness to provide it. Over the years I've had a few women want a work number. An unusual request but I get a lot of crank marketing calls anyway so another call from a strange female voice would not be looked at as odd. So I give it. The numbers never called which means I could have given a false one.

 

[tboy]

LG: that's funny that she wouldn't simply ask her acquaintance standing right next to her....even pull her away for a second and say "he's ok is he"??? Doesn't make sense to us (being male) but probably made perfect sense to her.....

I think it is all a balancing act. If a lady makes it too difficult to see, then since I'm seeing sp's because I don't want to go through the rigamarole of seeing a civvie, then why would I bother?

 

[LickingGravity]

LG: that's funny that she wouldn't simply ask her acquaintance standing right next to her....even pull her away for a second and say "he's ok is he"??? Doesn't make sense to us (being male) but probably made perfect sense to her.....

I think it is all a balancing act. If a lady makes it too difficult to see, then since I'm seeing sp's because I don't want to go through the rigamarole of seeing a civvie, then why would I bother?

I think she didn't have the confidence yet to deviate from her "routine" or since she was a "newbie" perhaps doesn't know who to trust in the industry yet and didn't know this other woman (even though they are "associated"). But you are right if it becomes a hassle or if it sets off my radar as being intrusive it's easy to pass. I would certainly not share a real name with someone who has not been around and did not have positive reviews from sources I trusted - so it's a two way street.

 

[treefort]

Random thoughts:

I considered P411 for US travel but did not want to give out personal info. I understand that the server(s) is in Canada.

For the most part, screening requirements here are minimal, often just a hobby phone # and/or an email address (eg "anonymous" gmail) which usually can be traced but there are ways to circumvent that. I don't circumvent but I use a gmail account and "hobbyish" phone. I appreciate that many ladies are taking on some significant risk, no doubt. (no pms on how to circumvent pls)

I would not book with a sp that requires personal info. I understand and respect why they feel it's necessary, but I'm not comfortable with that. I know that I'm not a safety risk, but an sp of course couldn't assume that.

I have always, to this point, booked via information and make initial contact through the boards. That way they can look through my posts if they want to. I see indies for the most part with a good reputation.

I concur with A1's "comfortable list" and have asked a sp for a reference to see another sp. No problem.

I tell the sp that I am married and that I prefer to be contacted via my gmail account and not by cell. The cell that I use is a pay-as-you-go but I do use it openly as my personal phone. Should an sp contact me out of the blue on my cell, I would not see her again but that hasn't happened yet. My phone is normally off anyways.

I also tell the sp about the chaotic nature of my marriage and personal life so they understand why my appointments are always last minute/day of. I don't want to make an appointment a day or two in advance because there's always a reasonable chance that I'd have to break it. I had to do that once and it's not fair to the sp.

In return ...

I'm very careful with what I say when discussing a sp on a board or pm such as incall location other than North York, Downtown, Airport etc. Or anything we talk about during the session that remotely boarders on anything personal and/or identifying. Discretion is everything.

Plus I'm well-behaved, always clean, donation in envelope placed on table upon arrival without being asked (gratuity included in advance), into the shower quickly etc. and I think all manners of etiquette a sp wants in a client other than being a "Brad Pitt". Sorry ladies!