Soul Mate

[dreamblade]

1. I believe that a strong nuclear family is still the ideal for raising kids and developing strong values/character. Not that the same cant be done in different environments; I just think its better. Of course, bad apples exist in every bushel.

A nuclear family is not a reality anymore. People have kids out of wedlock, they divorce, they remarry. Furthermore, the economy often forces both parents to work. Who stays home with the kids? Also, studies have shown that the old addage "It takes a village to raise a child" is a very healthy approach to child rearing. Now, in a poly household, you have children raised with multiple adults supervising, and sharing in the chores, so a distributed load is easier on all. Can this be achieved in a monogamist household, sure. My niece was raised exactly like that. She was also raised with the knowledge that her Uncle DB as well as Mommy and Daddy's other friends have more than one boyfriend/girlfriend. Guess what? She's 8 years old, and amazing. There's also my other friends, who live in a house together as an MFM relationship. Their daughter is 4, and the happiest girl you'll ever meet.

2. When I see an old couple walking hand in hand down the beach, I think "that's what I want".

Thats just my two cents.

That's fine, that's what you want for yourself. But why do you condemn others' choices when those choices are consensual and hurt no one? It's like telling me to not train for a race because you personally hate running. It's healthy for me, makes me and those that I love happier. Why deny me that happiness?

 

[Baz]

Dreamblade, I'm very impressed by your intelligent and well thought out argument and civil debate, albeit I do not agree with your chosen lifestyle as being for me, I do recognized that you have put a lot of sensible thought into your way of living. I tend to side with the others that a nuclear family consisting of a husband and a wife is the route to go when raising a family. Of course in saying this I will note that both the husband and wife must be truly committed to a) the relationship and b) to the raising of the offspring in a stable and loving environment. My fear in having a open relationship is the lack of commitment. At anytime any of the partner can get up and leave very easily leaving the children with a void.

Thank you to all who have contributed thus far to this very interesting topic and I hope it continues.

 

[Baz]

Soul mates eventually turn into wives!:no:

Is there a problem with this happening? If she is truly your soul mate I would think you would want nothing less than to share your lives with one another. Of course everyone has their ups and downs but it is how you handle these challenges. One needs communication and love to not be lead off track and into the wrong path.

 

[dreamblade]

Dreamblade, I'm very impressed by your intelligent and well thought out argument and civil debate, albeit I do not agree with your chosen lifestyle as being for me, I do recognized that you have put a lot of sensible thought into your way of living. I tend to side with the others that a nuclear family consisting of a husband and a wife is the route to go when raising a family. Of course in saying this I will note that both the husband and wife must be truly committed to a) the relationship and b) to the raising of the offspring in a stable and loving environment. My fear in having a open relationship is the lack of commitment. At anytime any of the partner can get up and leave very easily leaving the children with a void.

Thank you to all who have contributed thus far to this very interesting topic and I hope it continues.

You're welcome. It took me about 20 years to figure this stuff out, mainly because the pre-existing models offered by society, and my cultural background, offered me only frustration, guilt, and general unhappiness. The fears you mention are completely valid, but they are the same in the mono paradigm. We meet people every day. Some of these people will be types we are attracted to. So disolving the relationship can happen, no matter how many people you are committed to. As to it being very easy? I'm not so sure. You still pool your resources, build up social ties, have the same paternal attachement, be you open or mono. It's not that easy, IMO.

Again, I am in no way saying that a couple is incapable of raising a child, the dominant paradigm is still for monogamy, and society is plodding on. I just don't think it's the only way, and a greater understanding of world culture, history, and context show this.

 

[Baz]

I take it you're a young man DreamBlade, by young I mean under 35. Do you feel your outlook may change as you age and mellow into a more traditional arrangement?

 

[dreamblade]

Nope, I'm 40. The people I have mentioned in my post are older than I.

I doubt I'll change my stance on this. Like I said, it took 20 years for me to get where I am, in terms of self-awareness.

 

[Blank_Dave]

No soul means no soul mate. Checkmate. :na:

And yeah, DB's a smart cookie. Me on the other hand....:wacko:

 

[Blank_Dave]

I"m also tempted to throw into the mix Dr Jeff Young's schema concepts as playing a factor in 'soul mates'. But you guys have it well in hand, and I've spoken on schemas and relationships before.

 

[RAWD]

A nuclear family is not a reality anymore. People have kids out of wedlock, they divorce, they remarry. Furthermore, the economy often forces both parents to work. Who stays home with the kids? Also, studies have shown that the old addage "It takes a village to raise a child" is a very healthy approach to child rearing. Now, in a poly household, you have children raised with multiple adults supervising, and sharing in the chores, so a distributed load is easier on all. Can this be achieved in a monogamist household, sure. My niece was raised exactly like that. She was also raised with the knowledge that her Uncle DB as well as Mommy and Daddy's other friends have more than one boyfriend/girlfriend. Guess what? She's 8 years old, and amazing. There's also my other friends, who live in a house together as an MFM relationship. Their daughter is 4, and the happiest girl you'll ever meet.


That's fine, that's what you want for yourself. But why do you condemn others' choices when those choices are consensual and hurt no one? It's like telling me to not train for a race because you personally hate running. It's healthy for me, makes me and those that I love happier. Why deny me that happiness?

Come now, that's a flawed argument and I'm sure you're aware of it. You're a smart and articulate person. Your first comment is more circular than a merry-go-round! As for double income families, that's extraneous to the issue of nuclear family, as is the "village" argument. Grandparents, uncles/nieces and yes, a full time nanny all contribute to my family now. That apples equally to a nuclear vs. alternative family.


Im neither condemning nor denying you anything. I expressed my opinion, to which I am equally entitled as you are to yours. Neither one of us should feel threatened or diminished. That's the beauty of self actualization.

Im sorry if you perceive my comments differently. One thing I've learned is that this idea of PC and being afraid to speak your mind isn't healthy. It leads to wishy washy thinking and a lack of conviction. I'm glad that you feel strongly about this issue and I fully respect your choices!

 

[Robintheboywonder]

I totally agree with this statement. Groups use the PC card too often to silence other people's opinion.

 

[dreamblade]

Come now, that's a flawed argument and I'm sure you're aware of it. You're a smart and articulate person. Your first comment is more circular than a merry-go-round! As for double income families, that's extraneous to the issue of nuclear family, as is the "village" argument. Grandparents, uncles/nieces and yes, a full time nanny all contribute to my family now. That applies equally to a nuclear vs. alternative family.

Re-reading my comment, I forgot to add that, when re-marrying, there might be children from previous unions joining into the mix, those new family members won't necessarily get along. What of single parents? Sorry if that wasn't as clear as it sounded in my head. As for grand-parents and uncles, what if, like me, only they have a small family 500 kms away, and the rest back in the old country? And usually, when there's a double-income family, it means affording a nanny is not exactly in the cards.

Im neither condemning nor denying you anything. I expressed my opinion, to which I am equally entitled as you are to yours. Neither one of us should feel threatened or diminished. That's the beauty of self actualization.
Im sorry if you perceive my comments differently. One thing I've learned is that this idea of PC and being afraid to speak your mind isn't healthy. It leads to wishy washy thinking and a lack of conviction. I'm glad that you feel strongly about this issue and I fully respect your choices!

By saying that values are devolving, that infers that I subscribe to values that are less evolved than yours. It has nothing to do with being PC, and everything with being respectful, which I can see you trying to be. Using terms like "De-evolution" is a negative connotation, and a false one, since we both agree that neither your idea of the bonded or familial units are better, just different. And I think you'll agree with me that tolerance is an evolved value? Then having mono and non-mono, gay and bi and straight, queer and cis-gendered relationship models living side by side, acknowledging each others' worth and place is not a step towards de-evolution, but step towards a better tomorrow. No?

 

[RAWD]

Ok, first of all, I said that a nuclear family is the "ideal" in my opinion. So, yes, anything else is necessarily less ideal. Surely you do not mean to argue that every form of family is equal?

Maybe you do. I don't.

Btw, I never said that a gay union could not provide the same stable nurturing as a nuclear family.

 

[-b]

I would love to live in my own Utopia World ....
As I think others would.....

All our Utopia Worlds are crashing into each other.....

Like particles crashing into each other, breaking up and forming
bigger particles....

Our Worlds crashing into each other, forming bigger Utopia Worlds or breaking apart and finding new Ideas and Concepts

I think I need my meds again....sorry...:blush2:

 

[papasmerf]

sure I have a soul mate

But VLAD the IMPALER is not in the spirit of the post

 

[oldguyzer]

I have a soul mate too....it's just unfortunate we are not together. Damn... Damn-Not too smart

 

[Baz]

sure I have a soul mate

But VLAD the IMPALER is not in the spirit of the post

Stay away from Vlad, he's not a cheerful fellow. Papasmerf, how long have you been on your own? In the US it's illegal to partake in the pay for play hobby, how do you participate or do you date in the normal fashion??

 

[papasmerf]

Stay away from Vlad, he's not a cheerful fellow. Papasmerf, how long have you been on your own? In the US it's illegal to partake in the pay for play hobby, how do you participate or do you date in the normal fashion??

25 years and yes to other questions

 

[Baz]

25 years and yes to other questions

That is a long time to be on your own, it must get lonely at times. I don't think I'd be able to do it, I'm a people person. That being said, I do think at this point in your life it may be hard to live with someone. Most become very set in their ways and do not accept change that others may try to bring, especially the ladies.

 

[papasmerf]

That is a long time to be on your own, it must get lonely at times. I don't think I'd be able to do it, I'm a people person. That being said, I do think at this point in your life it may be hard to live with someone. Most become very set in their ways and do not accept change that others may try to bring, especially the ladies.

you wake up one morning naked at the breakfast table, drinking a beer and chewing your toe nails.
that is when you know you are free,

Actually Baz most people I know are not comfortable enough with themselves to be alone very long.

 

[Baz]

you wake up one morning naked at the breakfast table, drinking a beer and chewing your toe nails.
that is when you know you are free,

Actually Baz most people I know are not comfortable enough with themselves to be alone very long.

You are one flexible individual. It's true, especially men I believe have a hard time being alone.