Made with Love

Stabbing an intruder: Is it self-defence or assault?

Shallow

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2011
Messages
97
Moses Mahilal and his girlfriend, Sarah Walsh, sensed trouble as they entered her mother’s house just after 3 a.m. on July 31, 2011, and found the side door ajar.T

hey became even more alarmed when they saw a large pair of black, high-top Air Jordans at the bottom of the staircase leading to the second floor, where her mother, Kimberly Walsh, was asleep.
Mahilal, 26, made a beeline for the kitchen, grabbed a large knife and ran upstairs, where he confronted the intruder hiding behind the door of Kimberly Walsh’s bedroom.Within minutes, the wounded intruder, Kino Johnson, 33, was gone, and hours later Mahilal, was under arrest and charged with aggravated assault.

A preliminary hearing is set for Sept. 11.
The case highlights the much-debated subject of how much force is too much when a stranger attempts to steal your property or break into your house.Johnson has already admitted he was unlawfully inside the upscale home near Keele St. and Eglinton Ave. W. On June 28, he pleaded guilty in Ontario Superior Court to break and enter and two counts of possessing stolen property, including jewelry taken after he broke into an unoccupied Finch Ave. W. highrise apartment.Johnson “gained access by unknown means” to the Walsh residence, and once inside, “one of the victims armed himself for safety,”

Crown attorney David Fisher said, reading from an agreed statement of facts.
A “struggle ensued,” and Johnson received a stab wound to his chest and lacerations to his hand and leg, Fisher said.Johnson’s lawyer, Jason Forget, told court his client almost died from his injuries.“I did almost lose my life, so the way I look at things is completely different. I wake up every morning and I give God thanks,” Johnson told Justice Mary Lou Benotto before being sentenced.

“I want to be good to society and turn my life around.”
Benotto asked Johnson how he might feel if his mother — who was in the courtroom — woke up in the middle of the night to find a stranger in her bedroom.“That’s what you did to somebody. The effect on a person can last forever,” the judge told him.There was no mention that Johnson initially told police he went to the house, about a seven-minute walk from his apartment, to buy a small amount of weed from someone he didn’t know.

Police searched the home and found nothing illegal.
Johnson, who had convictions for robbery, assault and theft, was sentenced to 20 months in jail. Taking into account his pre-trial custody, Johnson had eight months left to serve as of June 28. He was also placed under two years’ probation.In light of Johnson’s guilty plea, Mahilal’s lawyer, Daniel Brown, is mystified why the Crown is proceeding with its case.

“We give people like this medals, not criminal records,” Brown said in an interview this week. The intruder “may have been armed or may have been violent or had accomplices. My client acted appropriately, under the circumstances.”In a brief statement to police the next morning, Mahilal insisted he was acting in self-defence and protecting “loved ones.” He lives in the home with his girlfriend and her mother.

“I don’t think I should get charged at all because I was more endangered than he was,” a dazed-looking Mahilal told two police officers. “Me, my girlfriend and her mom were in danger; it doesn’t make sense. All I did was defend myself.”Three weeks later, while still recovering in hospital, Johnson gave police a different version of the encounter.

The Crown provided his audio-taped statement, and other witness statements, to the defence as part of its disclosure obligation.
Johnson said Mahilal — whom he didn’t identify by name — first slashed his hand while he tried “to explain.”Johnson said he ran downstairs, tried to put on his shoes, when Mahilal, who was “going crazy,” stabbed him again in either the chest or leg.

“I know he was aiming for my heart,” he said. Johnson said he was stabbed a third time, outside, when he “opened the gate.” He ran home, bleeding badly, and leaving behind one black Air Jordan.
Hours after the incident, Sarah Walsh told police that after Mahilal grabbed a knife, they went upstairs and suddenly the intruder “came out of … nowhere.”“I’m grabbing him and punching his back, my mom is behind us in a nightgown.

Everyone was “freaking out and screaming” and the intruder and Mahilal were struggling when she called 911, frantically telling the operator “someone is in my house, I found someone in my house.” She told police Mahilal was trying to hold onto him so police could arrest him.Kimberly Walsh, who was awakened by screaming and watched some of the struggle in her nightgown, told police Mahilal had hold of Johnson and was pushing him down the stairs.

She heard Johnson say “don’t hurt me” but didn’t see him leave.
Toronto police will not comment on the case because it is before the courts.“An investigator’s job is to determine if there is sufficient evidence to charge someone,” explained Toronto police spokesman Mark Pugash. “It is not the investigator’s job to determine whether or not the person charged is guilty of the offence. That is the job of the courts.

The Canadian government recently passed legislation designed to expand the legal powers of a private citizen to make an arrest, and it applies in a situation like this, Brown said.The Citizen’s Arrest and Self Defence Act permits “the reasonable use of force, taking into account all the circumstances of the particular case,” says a backgrounder posted on the Department of Justice website. However, “a person is not entitled to use excessive force in a citizen’s arrest.

The new law was nicknamed the Lucky Moose bill, after the case of David Chen, the owner of the Lucky Moose food mart in Toronto’s Chinatown. He was charged with forcible confinement and assault after he and colleagues tied up a career thief and tossed him in a delivery van.Chen was acquitted and Mahilal will ask a jury of his peers for the same outcome,

Brown said.
A person found guilty of aggravated assault is liable to imprisonment for up to 14 years.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/cr...ces-assault-charge-for-stabbing-home-intruder
 
And this defines what's wrong now.
If I find someone in my house he better be ready for a world of pain.
 
Before the prosecutors can do anything they must first define "excessive force". He will be acquitted as there is no way you can send a person in jail for protecting your family.
 
this thread makes me glad I live in the USA where you can defend your, family and home from invaders. Without spending time in jail.

With that said the little prick you forgot to kill can sue the crap out of you for doing so.
 
So the thief takes off shoes after he breaks into the house?



He took off his shoes so he would make less noise walking around upstairs.

If he chased the criminal outside and kept stabbing at him as he was trying to run away, the charges might stick because a case can be made that he went well beyond reasonable force. He's own girlfriend admits she hears the burglar say "don't hurt me". It's going to be a tough one although in the heat of the moment, adrenalin pumping I personally can't blame the home owner.
 
once again, my old adage is true: just because something is legal, doesn't make it right and just because something is illegal, doesn't make it wrong.....funny how the intruder only now wants to turn his life around, had he not been injured would he feel the same way? I think not........
 
i wonder if he had chocked the culprit out and waited for officers to arrive if he still would have been charged?
 
i wonder if he had chocked the culprit out and waited for officers to arrive if he still would have been charged?

that's the question...was stabbing him use of extreme force?

The problem when you try to use your fists, very few, even those with MMA training can knock someone out with one or two punches......
 
that's the question...was stabbing him use of extreme force?

The problem when you try to use your fists, very few, even those with MMA training can knock someone out with one or two punches......

It's true, only a trained professional or a really good street fighter can accomplish a quick knock out but most half assed trained MMA guys can choke someone out who doesn't have much skill. I guess it would depend on how the officers view it when they find the dude sleeping.

The officers can use very aggressive force to the point of shooting an individual.

Imagine a guy is car jacking you. You manage to grab his gun, he gets in your car and tries to run you down. An officer would shoot too kill in this scenario but we do it and we're charged with murder. It doesn't seem fair.
 
I've been practicing with my lariat and my bullwhip again.
I wonder what the cops would say to find a guy hog tied with maybe a couple of marks across his back.
Marks first, ties later.
 
once again, my old adage is true: just because something is legal, doesn't make it right and just because something is illegal, doesn't make it wrong.....funny how the intruder only now wants to turn his life around, had he not been injured would he feel the same way? I think not........
+ 1. I totally agree with your point.
 
I agree in a case where it's spontaneous and still high risk one must do what needs to be done to secure ones safety. In a case where the burglar has been subdued then one should wait for the proper authorities without inflicting further injury.
 
this thread makes me glad I live in the USA where you can defend your, family and home from invaders. Without spending time in jail.
Well said. I've considered moving up to Canada, but the fact that you can't arm yourself for self-defence is one of a few reasons why I won't, and will just visit occasionally to enjoy some Canadian girls :)
 
Well said. I've considered moving up to Canada, but the fact that you can't arm yourself for self-defence is one of a few reasons why I won't, and will just visit occasionally to enjoy some Canadian girls :)
You can get a gun permit in Canada, as long as you have a clean record, are not mentally unstable and you take a firearms safety course. There are also other requirements such as safe storage. I have included a link below.



According to the RCMP website, there are 1.9 million firearm licence holders in Canada

https://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/index-eng.htm
 
The downside in Canada is the restrictions on the type of weapon you can own.
Not that I personally want a TEC 9, but I'd love to own a GE Minigun
 
Back
Top Bottom