The growth of affection

[Demien2k5]

You may want to read up on your world history, before shooting your mouth off. Like I mentioned, the current oppressive, religion-based, world view started gaining ground in the 50's. Furthermore, no one is down-playing what UN troops are doing in the region to make it better. Just because someone sees Iran in a larger context, as a people, not as an raving mob of ululating lunatics, doesn't mean they automatically hate our way of life. The world is much more complex that your "With us or against us" viewpoint. Grow up.

Lauren was just pointing out that the stupid, the violent, and the monstrous are present in the West as well as the Middle East. The genocide of the Cathars, the Spanish Inquisition, the Salem Witch Burnings, the denial of the right to vote for women and blacks, all the way up Jerry Falwell and his crew of WASP lunatics, and the Tea Baggers.

Humans, be they brown, black, white, yellow, or red, are dicks.

Learn that, soldier-boy, and start thinking like an officer, not a frontline grunt.

The Arab world has NEVER been a democratically ruled society Dreamblade. Period. For over 5000 years of recorded history, fundamentalist idolatry, various monarchies, religious zealots and extremists of all types have rules the Arab worlds under the basic code of violence referred to in HOF's post. Get you own facts straight. I would strongly suspect that what real life knowledge you may actually have to share with the forum on this subject is rather confined, and likely gleened from Wikipedia, mass media or idle chatter - just like most of the other north american pseudo-academics that sit on their fat asses and pontificate on a regular basis while the rest of us were doing all the real work to actually create a democratic world for oppressed citizens of arab countries to flee towards; seeking refuge among us each and every day, at every democratic country's border crossings by the thousands.

Don't lecture me on world history you condescending knob - I fucking lived it real time for 20 years in some of the worst shit holes this planet has to offer while you were sipping tea at the kitchen table in your starched underwear reading all about it from the cheap seats and worrying about "what it all meant to your precious RRSPs and the interest on your variable rate mortgage."

You're absolutely right. Humans are dicks, so feel free to go right to head of the line where you belong.

Asshole.

 

[Lauren Summerhill]

Humans, be they brown, black, white, yellow, or red, are dicks.

And the moment one person realizes they don't have the right to be a dick to someone else (regardless of the excuse), the world suddenly becomes a slightly better place. Magical how that works.

 

[Demien2k5]

To anyone that is not Muslim, the Koran states they are the infidel and must die. The lesson of the infidel is taught from birth. That's pretty simple!

Like I said, this basic premise of the Arab world has not changed in 5000 years. Don't tell me, Dreamblade, that the barbarism and outright violence this philosophy has promoted, cultivated, and perpetually perpetrated on the peoples, nations and other religions of the world since humans began walking upright is really only 60 years old. What next, you'll tell me that the Muslim world is vastly misunderstood, and that the opposing secular and non-secular opinions of this doctrine of virtually every free nation on the planet are nothing more than the result of a carefully orchestrated mass media propaganda campaign? Fuck off with your bullshit and go stand beside Lauren among those with absolutely no fucking clue whatsoever.

 

[Demien2k5]

And the moment one person realizes they don't have the right to be a dick to someone else (regardless of the excuse), the world suddenly becomes a slightly better place. Magical how that works.

...and you're so full of shit your eyes are dark brown. Your website states you're in your mid-twenties, but you inform all of us with such feeble minds that you've been an escort in Toronto for 10 years. Then, this : "I am quite familiar with Iranian culture, I had lived amongst their community for little while."

So help us all understand, just so we're clear...you've been an escort since you were 17-18, and during that time, you lived among Iranians (presumably somewhere in Iran since you're so well informed and deeply educated in the fundamental ways of their culture and machinations of their community, which ain't likely emulated the same way, say, there in Toronto, right?)

During that time, you've travelled the globe (according to your site) experiencing all there is to experience of the real world, found time to get a post-secondary education, even penned some published works, all while earning a living as a high priced escort (because you've stated you're so special, you're way out of the financial leagues of the Joe Averages participating on "most forums" as you speculated.

Quite the credible source of informed world views aren't we?

 

[Demien2k5]

Here you go Dreamblade. I know you're sitting in your cave furiously researching and composing yet another informative and academically perfect perspective piece and associated retort on the history of the known universe and all things Arab, so thought I'd help you out buddy, maybe save you some time...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran#Early_modern_era_.281501.E2.80.931921.29

Try not to stay up too late writing down all the ways I'm wrong, you badass "internet warrior"....you have an early appointment with your manicurist I'm sure you won't want to be late for.

 

[diver12488]

Thanks for backing me up on this one Demien. My brother is an operator in the U.S. special forces community, we both have traveled the world including the middle east, and I have had the honor of dating a beautiful persian woman.

Honor killings are not in the Qur'an. I understand this, and I was speaking to the muslim culture not religion.

Are there evil people of all religions in the world? YES!!! I believe abused religion is toxic..

Lauren, I cannot assume that you have seen how deep the rabbit hole of degradation goes, ESPECIALLY, in muslim countries. In fact, I know that you have no idea because you wrote, "The only way to fix that is with access to education in those areas to nip it at the root." I'd love to see you try and educate these people! I don't believe you can. You, and many others, don't realize how deep these cultural "core traditions" go.

Are there muslims that don't participate and that want to move on, Absolutely!!! My ex was one of them.

We can bullshit each other all we want about the topic. Just ask any woman's rights activist who is from the middle east about the culture towards women over there; they will tell you how it is.

P.S. Lauren, Everyone has the right to be a dick, doesn't make it proper but you do have the right. (Unless you are in an woman in an oppressive country such as, pick one, in the middle east. Then you get your face burned or tongue cut out)

 

[dreamblade]

Like I said, this basic premise of the Arab world has not changed in 5000 years. Don't tell me, Dreamblade, that the barbarism and outright violence this philosophy has promoted, cultivated, and perpetually perpetrated on the peoples, nations and other religions of the world since humans began walking upright is really only 60 years old. What next, you'll tell me that the Muslim world is vastly misunderstood, and that the opposing secular and non-secular opinions of this doctrine of virtually every free nation on the planet are nothing more than the result of a carefully orchestrated mass media propaganda campaign? Fuck off with your bullshit and go stand beside Lauren among those with absolutely no fucking clue whatsoever.

Wow! Who pissed in your Jack Daniels?

First off, Islam is not 5000 years old. It started in the 7th century AD. Second, if it weren't for the Islamic world, we'd still be in Europe, bashing each other with swords, and dying of the flu, the black plague, and the pox, while our leaders could barely write their own name. It was thanks to the knowledge saved in the Arabic Colleges that we were able to crawl out of the Dark Ages, and bring on the Renaissance and then the Industrial Revolution.

Before the 1950's, the Middle East was no more no less violent and oppressive than the Western World. My grandfather, a member of the Warsaw Philharmonic Orchestra, would travel there as well as the rest of the world. It may seem astounding to you, but an enlightened civilization can be brought down to barbarism in less than a decade. By the time the next generation is born, they don't know any better than what's around them. Now 3 generations later, they think it has always been like this. Kind of like you, actually.

Don't lecture me on world history you condescending knob - I fucking lived it real time for 20 years in some of the worst shit holes this planet has to offer while you were sipping tea at the kitchen table in your starched underwear reading about all about it from the cheap seats and worrying about "what it all meant to your precious RRSPs and the interest on your variable rate mortgage."

Obviously, I have to lecture you on world history, because you have absolutely no concept of it. Being in the military doesn't excuse you from being ignorant of the bigger picture.

As far as that "living in the real world" rant, dude, you have no idea where I've been, what I have done, or what training I've received. You were paid to go to these places, no one forced you to enlist. For your actions (assuming their true) you have our thanks, but not our blind acceptance of your views as fact. Better quit while you're ahead, you sound like the broken retired front line guy ranting over his beer at the local veteran's hall.

 

[dreamblade]

Thanks for backing me up on this one Demien. My brother is an operator in the U.S. special forces community, we both have traveled the world including the middle east, and I have had the honor of dating a beautiful persian woman.

Honor killings are not in the Qur'an. I understand this, and I was speaking to the muslim culture not religion.

Are there evil people of all religions in the world? YES!!! I believe abused religion is toxic..

Lauren, I cannot assume that you have seen how deep the rabbit hole of degradation goes, ESPECIALLY, in muslim countries. In fact, I know that you have no idea because you wrote, "The only way to fix that is with access to education in those areas to nip it at the root." I'd love to see you try and educate these people! I don't believe you can. You, and many others, don't realize how deep these cultural "core traditions" go.

Are there muslims that don't participate and that want to move on, Absolutely!!! My ex was one of them.

We can bullshit each other all we want about the topic. Just ask any woman's rights activist who is from the middle east about the culture towards women over there; they will tell you how it is.

P.S. Lauren, Everyone has the right to be a dick, doesn't make it proper but you do have the right. (Unless you are in an woman in an oppressive country such as, pick one, in the middle east. Then you get your face burned or tongue cut out)

I sadly have to agree with you, that education alone will not make fanatics change their ways. It will most likely be a carrot-and-stick kind of deal. Hopefully, as more muslims emigrate to Europe and North America, they will, sooner than later, start adopting a more egalitarian world view.

 

[smylee52]

.

Man I can just feel the affection growing in this thread .

 

[diver12488]

I sadly have to agree with you, that education alone will not make fanatics change their ways. It will most likely be a carrot-and-stick kind of deal. Hopefully, as more muslims emigrate to Europe and North America, they will, sooner than later, start adopting a more egalitarian world view.

I believe Italy will have a majority of muslims here in the next 25 years or so, if I remember correctly.

Muslims may, and in many ways have changed their views in other countries. However, forgive me for still being extremely skeptical for believing in any large scale changes in the home lands... :???:

dreamblade, it is nice to see that we can agree on at least one thing though...

 

[Demien2k5]

Wow! Who pissed in your Jack Daniels?

First off, Islam is not 5000 years old. It started in the 7th century AD. Second, if it weren't for the Islamic world, we'd still be in Europe, bashing each other with swords, and dying of the flu, the black plague, and the pox, while our leaders could barely write their own name. It was thanks to the knowledge saved in the Arabic Colleges that we were able to crawl out of the Dark Ages, and bring on the Renaissance and then the Industrial Revolution.

Before the 1950's, the Middle East was no more no less violent and oppressive than the Western World. My grandfather, a member of the Warsaw Philharmonic Orchestra, would travel there as well as the rest of the world. It may seem astounding to you, but an enlightened civilization can be brought down to barbarism in less than a decade. By the time the next generation is born, they don't know any better than what's around them. Now 3 generations later, they think it has always been like this. Kind of like you, actually.



Obviously, I have to lecture you on world history, because you have absolutely no concept of it. Being in the military doesn't excuse you from being ignorant of the bigger picture.

As far as that "living in the real world" rant, dude, you have no idea where I've been, what I have done, or what training I've received. You were paid to go to these places, no one forced you to enlist. For your actions (assuming their true) you have our thanks, but not our blind acceptance of your views as fact. Better quit while you're ahead, you sound like the broken retired front line guy ranting over his beer at the local veteran's hall.

Don't confuse education and brutal oppression. They can and do co-exist.

Yes, I'm quite sure we're all better off as a result of the renowned Muslim enlightenment gifted upon the rest of us in the non-arab world in 650AD. The reality pal is that fundamental principles of Islam do in fact go back almost 5000 years, and were simply formalized by a small and comparatively better educated minority when the verses of the Qur'an were supposedly revealed to the prophet Mohammed.

Not sure what textbook you've been reading, but the middle east has been in an almost perpetual state of conflict, either religious or secular for again, almost 5000 years. Clearly not the bosom of peace and tranquility you'd have us believe. That my friend is an empirically supported fact, documented by archeologists around the globe and supported by artifacts excavated and deciphered to a very precise degree of understanding.

And you are mistaken in one other last little tidbit...I know quite a lot about you in fact, which is why, having observed your behaviour for sometime now on those other forums, I've tired of your horseshit. You should watch what you share with other hobbyists and SPs dude, while you're slithering around chatrooms, PMing who knows who, and sharing a public beer with folks who tell you they're your buddy - it's a very very small world after all.

I don't need or want your gratitude for the roads I've travelled. I made personal choices for personal reasons, and stand behind them all, good or bad, but I also don't need your sunshine blown up my ass either, so save that crap for someone else who doesn't know any better. Your last line posted above shows me everything I need to know about what you really think of those of us who spent time in the military - real class Dreamblade. Make sure you stand right in front where everyone can see you on Memorial Day, okay?

 

[HOF]

Popcorn!

Popcorn!

 

[dreamblade]

Don't confuse education and brutal oppression. They can and do co-exist.

Yes, I'm quite sure we're all better off as a result of the renowned Muslim enlightenment gifted upon the rest of us in the non-arab world in 650AD. The reality pal is that fundamental principles of Islam do in fact go back almost 5000 years, and were simply formalized by a small and comparatively better educated minority when the verses of the Qur'an were supposedly revealed to the prophet Mohammed.

Not sure what textbook you've been reading, but the middle east has been in an almost perpetual state of conflict, either religious or secular for again, almost 5000 years. Clearly not the bosom of peace and tranquility you'd have us believe. That my friend is an empirically supported fact, documented by archeologists around the globe and supported by artifacts excavated and deciphered to a very precise degree of understanding.

I never said the Middle East was a peaceful place. However, claiming it's historically more brutal than any other place on Earth is a fallacy.

And you are mistaken in one other last little tidbit...I know quite a lot about you in fact, which is why, having observed your behaviour for sometime now on those other forums, I've tired of your horseshit. You should watch what you share with other hobbyists and SPs dude, while you're slithering around chatrooms, PMing who knows who, and sharing a public beer with folks who tell you they're your buddy - it's a very very small world after all.

It's nice to know I have a fan. However, if you did know that much about me, you'd never have mentioned that lap of luxury, ivory tower crap. Sorry, seems you either have me confused with someone else, or you're just another keyboard warrior.

I don't need or want your gratitude for the roads I've travelled. I made personal choices for personal reasons, and stand behind them all, good or bad, but I also don't need your sunshine blown up my ass either, so save that crap for someone else who doesn't know any better. Your last line posted above shows me everything I need to know about what you really think of those of us who spent time in the military - real class Dreamblade. Make sure you stand right in front where everyone can see you on Memorial Day, okay?

Obviously you do need gratitude and validation, otherwise, you wouldn't have started attacking people for saying "Look, they're just like us." Nothing I said impugned on the military. In fact, I have a friend in Kandahar right now on his second tour, and several who've been in former Yugoslavia or in either Iraq. They're all excellent military men and women, and they don't start spittle-emitting rants about how people don't respect the troops. They are humble. They are quiet and laid back. You know why? Cuz they can F you up with a rolled up newspaper. They don't need no validation other than that knowledge, and that they served their country the best they could.
So go ahead and keep barking. I don't know you beyond being a fellow hobbyist, but by your comments in this thread, you've shown me you're rude, you're a lout, and you are weak.

Have a good night foaming at the mouth.

 

[Demien2k5]

I never said the Middle East was a peaceful place. However, claiming it's historically more brutal than any other place on Earth is a fallacy.

It's nice to know I have a fan. However, if you did know that much about me, you'd never have mentioned that lap of luxury, ivory tower crap. Sorry, seems you either have me confused with someone else, or you're just another keyboard warrior.

Obviously you do need gratitude and validation, otherwise, you wouldn't have started attacking people for saying "Look, they're just like us." Nothing I said impugned on the military. In fact, I have a friend in Kandahar right now on his second tour, and several who've been in former Yugoslavia or in either Iraq. They're all excellent military men and women, and they don't start spittle-emitting rants about how people don't respect the troops. They are humble. They are quiet and laid back. You know why? Cuz they can F you up with a rolled up newspaper. They don't need no validation other than that knowledge, and that they served their country the best they could.
So go ahead and keep barking. I don't know you beyond being a fellow hobbyist, but by your comments in this thread, you've shown me you're rude, you're a lout, and you are weak.

Have a good night foaming at the mouth.

Don't confuse yourself Dreamblade. I'm not a fan of yours in any way. Not on HUBGFE.com. Not on ****.ca and not on My****.com. Believe me, I've done my homework and rest assured, I do know you; in fact we've actually met, only you were too stupid to realize it, big mouth. You were as unimpressive then as you are now. You may think that riding to Lauren's rescue was heroic, but anyone who take's up a defensive stance purporting "Look, they're just like us" in this thread's context is either very naive or a complete fool. Clearly you're both, so congratulations.

And save that "I've got friends in the military, that makes me an authority on the nature of conflict and the human condition". When you've been there, you can have an opinion. Until then, keep it to yourself. Otherwise you're just another academic with absolutely no clue.

 

[Lauren Summerhill]

Us guys often get the primped look so when we unexpectedly get to see the real day to day look its like were seeing something taboo. The viewing of the non-SP look makes us feel special because others don't see this side. A first or second meeting must be of the done up look followed by the dress down otherwise there is no frame of reference.

Here's an example of a case that happened to me.

Sound like you found a gem! I guess I never appreciated what impact it can have to see a woman in purely casual attire.

 

[All4one]

Anyone of you have been in Middle Eastern? I guess the answer is NO.

I am from Middle East. I lived there for 25 years. Before I get into this I am not Arab nor Muslim. But you guys are all wrong about it. Problem is NOT where you were born, its who you are.

1000's of people killed in Africa over the years because your so called "modern world society" killed people over diamonds.

1000's of people killed in Arabic worlds because of Oil.

HOF, Don't be such a hatred person and read the Kuran. You wont lose anything. Kuran DOES NOT say anything what you have mentioned.

From Kuran " Whoever kills another human, they are not human. They are evils itself"

What is happening there... Simple... Devilish minds are using peoples' religions and using those uneducated poor people.

I am sure none of you know about this. Iran has one of the biggest Christian population in Arabic world. But you don't hear they are killing them. Because its not about religion. You guys have to understand that first.

And Learn before speak, it doesn't work like this " Oh my buddy told me this and that" That is the first mistake you make.

Ignoring the TRUTH wont fix the problem. Don't be ignorant and full with hate where someone was born, skin color, eye shape. If you do that it's called RACISM.

Problem with Arabic world... lets stay on the real part of the problem. They are poor and uneducated, they believe what they have been told them to believe. 100's of years those poor people has been used, killed and forced to move because of OIL. If you educate those poor people they will fight for their rights, but this is what "Modern world society" wants? Guess?? Of course not. Its easy to use uneducated people.

Reading all these hate posts without realizing the real problem, made me think. So we called ourself a modern? democratic? Then you all need to read your posts again.

There is NO HONOR KILLING in any religion!!! It is what some sick minds twisting around the religions.

 

[Lauren Summerhill]

As for your friend and the meeting, we all have our masks. I have a similar dress style to yours on weekends, but weekdays, I espouse the corporate whore chic. When wearing the mask, we not only look different, but our body language is different as well, you or he may not pick up on that on the conscious level, but it does play a significant part in people's interaction.

Wow, actually I think you nailed it. Body language!

It's true, we carry ourselves differently in evening wear, feminine fashion and grunge rock. I don't think about it as masks, those are all styles of dress I throughly enjoy, merely different facets.

I have a good personal life friend, who by day looks like a straight laced powerful lawyer, but by night he's a tattoed party freak - it's pretty awesome to witness the transformation.

 

[dreamblade]

Don't confuse yourself Dreamblade. I'm not a fan of yours in any way. Not on HUBGFE.com. Not on ****.ca and not on My****.com. Believe me, I've done my homework and rest assured, I do know you; in fact we've actually met, only you were too stupid to realize it, big mouth. You were as unimpressive then as you are now. You may think that riding to Lauren's rescue was heroic, but anyone who take's up a defensive stance purporting "Look, they're just like us" in this thread's context is either very naive or a complete fool. Clearly you're both, so congratulations.

You see, you've say you've done your homework. Obviously you have a nice little man-crush because since you don't register at all with me. Just another dude who may have been tagging on as I was talking to people who matter. But it seems that I left enough of an impression on you that you "did your research" on me. Do you have a poster of me in your bedroom? Is it the one with the Camaro? I love that one.

And save that "I've got friends in the military, that makes me an authority on the nature of conflict and the human condition". When you've been there, you can have an opinion. Until then, keep it to yourself. Otherwise you're just another academic with absolutely no clue.

What makes you think I wasn't? I just choose not to shoot my mouth off about what I've done like some people. I repeat: You're a lout, you're rude, and you're a blowhard. You yell and insult people, then fall back on the "you don't respect the military" as a guilt tool to prevent any civilised discourse. Weak of mind. Insignificant.

 

[JackassJack]

Jesus christ!~ grow up people!

Miss Lauren, dont mind the kids.

 

[Lauren Summerhill]

Anyone of you have been in Middle Eastern? I guess the answer is NO.

I have, and the culture is rich, beautiful and ancient. I am especially in love with Jerusalem (the Old City). It actually reminds me of Japan - a world of multilayers, where the important stuff goes unsaid, and one needs a knowledge of the history to understand daily interactions.