Clean eating....

[cristycurves]

Gluten free with non celiacs is a fad diet. Vegan is a morally/ ascetic based diet. Doctor'sdiagnose celiac, usually in children. It's an awful disease. For nonceliacs, gluten free has a placebo effect.

Well you know me, I have to disagree, lol.
Aren't all diets ascetic? Your deciding to refrain from eating processed foods and growing your own food could be considered an ascetic way of eating? Some of the vegans I know choose veganism because of their research and beliefs of it being a healthier diet, not because of any other morals. Just as you believe growing your own food and eating less or no processed foods is a better way to live/eat, they believe eating only plant based foods is a better way to live/eat As far as eating gluten free, celiac disease is a genetic disease, found in adults and children. The only person I've known with it was diagnosed as an adult and is an older person. I agree though, if you don't have celiac, no point in removing grains from your diet.

 

[nntsci]

Well you know me, I have to disagree, lol.
Aren't all diets ascetic? Your deciding to refrain from eating processed foods and growing your own food could be considered an ascetic way of eating?

not really, because I don't like most processed highly foods...

 

[cristycurves]

not really, because I don't like most processed highly foods...

Technically processed is a spectrum.... and most? :wink2: But you do like wine and really an ascetic way of eating doesn't mean you give up only what you dislike, or what you find unhealthy, it literally means you give up all worldly pleasures, and survive on only the minimum, those that won't make the body suffer. So by it's definition I think we're both wrong in our uses of it

 

[nntsci]

Technically processed is a spectrum.... and most? :wink2: But you do like wine and really an ascetic way of eating doesn't mean you give up only what you dislike, or what you find unhealthy, it literally means you give up all worldly pleasures, and survive on only the minimum, those that won't make the body suffer. So by it's definition I think we're both wrong in our uses of it

That's what I was saying (though my word order was scrambled), I don't like most highly processed foods, so giving them up is not a sacrifice. Asceticism is giving up worldly pleasures for a higher moral value... which is not what I'm doing.

Vegan's give up all animal products, not just meat, but honey, eggs, milk etc. and anything else where they believe an animal is enslaved by human (feathered coats, wool, leather), for a moral purpose. Similarly Jainist monks (a sect of Hinduism) abstain from eating anything with senses including all animals, as well as onions, and other root vegetables and any plant that would be completely killed if eaten... again, for an explicitly moral purpose. But Jainist's do allow milk products in their diet.

 

[cristycurves]

But that's where you and many misunderstand vegans. Many vegans choose the lifestyle because they believe it to be healthier one, just as you believe processed foods to be unhealthy, not for moral reasons.... some vegans I know, don't have any concern about animals. I mean they'd never hurt one, but they're not eating them or using anything made from them, not to be kind, but because they feel it's just healthier .

 

[nntsci]

But that's where you and many misunderstand vegans. Many vegans choose the lifestyle because they believe it to be healthier one, just as you believe processed foods to be unhealthy, not for moral reasons.... some vegans I know, don't have any concern about animals. I mean they'd never hurt one, but they're not eating them or using anything made from them, not to be kind, but because they feel it's just healthier .

Vegans?... no... I think you are confusing vegetarians with vegans.

veganism is very much all about the immorality of killing and/ or enslaving animals. I've never met a vegan who is doing it for health... vegetarians yes sometimes are doing it for health only, but not vegans. Many vegans will argue that veganism is healthier as well and might argue that it is more natural, but the lengths they go through to avoid all perceived cruelty goes well beyond their own health. Not much of a health benefit of rejecting honey, wool, silk etc..

Definition: “Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purposes, from junk food vegans to raw vegans – and everything in between – there’s a version of veganism to suit everyone. Yet one thing we all have in common is a plant-based diet avoiding all animal foods such as meat, dairy, eggs and honey – as well as products like leather and any tested on animals.” (The Vegan Society, 2014, ¶1)

Motivation and emotion/Book/2014/Veganism motivation - Wikiversity

 

[cristycurves]

Thanks for your responsesI know what veganism is and what vegetarianism is as well
But, many people who choose a style of eating, or lifestyle, do so for their own reasons not specifically because of what that diet or lifestyle represents. Apparently there are some in my circle lying to me, lol.....as a few vegans I know, have stated they eat this way for their health, and for that reason alone. None of these people I'm speaking of has ever mentioned a love of animals, or do any type of rescue work or advocacy regarding animals either. Nor do any of them own pets.
My belief is that to be a vegan you give up all animal products in your diet and lifestyle, and that you do so for and because of animals, however, as I've stated, some disagree with this viewpoint, obviously, as they've chosen veganism just because they believe it is a diet that makes them feel better and one which is healthier There doesn't seem to be a spectrum of veganism, it appears to be all or nothing, yet within vegetarianism, the spectrum varies. Some eat fish, some dairy, some eat eggs only, etc, etc. I suppose any of us can call ourselves what we wish......
A famous vegan that choose the diet for health reasons only is Bill Clinton, although I've heard he's eating wild salmon occasionally now. I'm sure there are other famous names as well, I haven't looked into that. But there are some links that list the reasons people choose veganism and what tops all those lists are health reasons....... The 5 Reasons People Go Vegan | One Green Planet

 

[Baz]

I eat well but can't fathom not enjoying a good cut of steak every now and then. Our ancestors used to hunt for protein as it's a valuable nutrient for the human body. I believe strict vegans are doing harm to themselves in the long run. Instead a balanced approach to a diet is the best way to a healthy lifestyle.

 

[nntsci]

I eat well but can't fathom not enjoying a good cut of steak every now and then. Our ancestors used to hunt for protein as it's a valuable nutrient for the human body. I believe strict vegans are doing harm to themselves in the long run. Instead a balanced approach to a diet is the best way to a healthy lifestyle.

Indeed its largely believed by scientist that it was the high availability of protein in meat the propelled us to our current civilization. However, more vegetable, less meat is healthier at least once you reach adulthood. There have been studies that show that a largely plant based diet is healthier, but a strict vegan diet should not be done with infants unless carefully supervised by a doctor. Strict Vegans do not harm themselves as long as they take a lot of supplements of the vitamin that are not found in vegetables, especially B12.

Christy, I don't know if Clinton really knows the difference between vegan and vegetarian... If he wears wool suits, or leather shoes he's a vegetarian, not a vegan.
Nothing wrong with being a vegetarian either.

You are right that vegetarians come in many different forms; some accepting some forms of meat, or eggs or milk products; vegans reject all animal products including a honey and wool.

"I haven't looked into that. But there are some links that list the reasons people choose veganism and what tops all those lists are health reasons"

I'll note that reasons 2, 3 and 4 are moral reasons (environment, morality, social justice), and reason #5 is a combination of the above.

Even the top reason explanation says "Some specifically turn to a plant-based diet to improve their health and well-being and eventually adopt the vegan lifestyle because of the numerous negative impacts of animal agriculture on animals and the planet." Meaning that people start out eating a plant based diet (vegetarian) for health reason, but switch to a full vegan approach to life for the moral reasons.

PS. I'm not vegan, but do try to follow a more veggies, less meat diet for health and environmental reasons.