Made with Love

Dentists flout 'stupid' law that treats them as sex abusers

Bubba

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How stupid is this law :neutral:



Dentists are permitted to treat their spouses — but they better not have sex.
Put another way, dentists who have sex with their spouses better not be messing around with their teeth. This is the current law of the land in Ontario, one that many dentists are secretly flouting and calling “dumb” and “stupid.”

In an interview with the Star earlier this week, Ontario Health Minister Deb Matthews conceded the dentists may have a point and has agreed to review the restriction. One rabble-rouser calling for change is Burlington dentist Larry Pedlar, who, for half a century, counted his wife among his patients. A year ago, he was mortified to learn that if he continued doing this he could be found guilty of sexual abuse and have his licence pulled for five years.

That’s when the Ontario Court of Appeal issued a decision saying that the province’s Regulated Health Professions Act makes it clear that health professionals cannot have sex with their patients. The appeal court was ruling on a case involving a Waterloo chiropractor who had treated his girlfriend. The chiropractor was found guilty of professional misconduct for sexual abuse and lost his licence.

Since the act also applies to dentists, the profession’s regulatory college and professional association immediately put word out to their members, warning that the ruling could have implications for them.

“If I treat my wife, it means I am sexually abusing her,” says an incredulous Pedlar, 72. “It means I would be an outlaw.” Still, half the dentists he knows continue to treat their spouses, he says. “They just keep their mouths shut.” The issue has become a topic of ridicule in dental circles.

In an article titled “Dumb Stupid Laws” in the Oral Health Journal, dentist Randy Lang offers some tips to married dentists who want to continue treating their spouses: “Take a chance and covertly continue to both treat and have sex with your spouse. Have your spouse wear a disguise, like a moustache and beard, when she or he enters and exits your dental office. And make sure all appointments are done late at night under cover of darkness. Also, at home, be sure to lock your bedroom door and cover all the windows with black paper.”

On a more serious note, Lang — an editor of the journal and a lecturer in orthodontics and the University of Toronto — advises relocating to another province where the laws are different. Health Minister Deb Matthews acknowledges that the dentists’ concerns are legitimate. On Monday, she asked the Health Professions Regulatory Advisory Council to take a look at the issue and come back to her with recommendations on possible changes to the rules.

“Why should they not be able to treat their spouses? In some communities, there might be only one dentist. Does that person (spouse) have to travel for that dental care?” she asked. Whatever changes the province may make, protection of patients from sexual abuse by health professionals will continue to be the top priority, Matthews said.

The sexual abuse provisions of the 1993 Regulated Health Professions Act were included because of abuse previously perpetrated by some psychiatrists and psychologists, according to the Ontario Dental Association. In 1995, after successful lobbying by dentists, the then health minister sent a letter to the Royal College of Dental Surgeons of Ontario, giving them permission to treat spouses and romantic partners, something they had a long history of doing.

But last year’s Court of Appeal decision overrides that exemption, leaving the dentists in limbo. Lynn Tomkins, president of the Ontario Dental Association, says the possibility that a dentist doing a filling for a spouse could be “considered the same as a predatory sexual deviant” is extremely troubling.
 
Once more common sense goes out the window...you'd think these lawmakers would be smart enough to simply include a clause that stated: except if the patient is a spouse, or common law partner....

That it. That's all it would take.....

BTW: Love the statment "keep their mouths shut" lol........
 
How stupid is this law :neutral:



Dentists are permitted to treat their spouses — but they better not have sex.

I concur tboy and the law should be revised. Yet ironically, and forgive me for saying this , it shouldnt be a problem for many of the older married dentists out there as many of them probably stopped having sex with their spouses....Sorry I just see so many unhappy married couples out there.....
 
If they're consenting adults, there's no reason dentists can't fuck any of their patients. What next, a pizza delivery guy or the pool maintenance dude can't fuck their customers?
 
If they're consenting adults, there's no reason dentists can't fuck any of their patients. What next, a pizza delivery guy or the pool maintenance dude can't fuck their customers?

If that happens I am quitting my pizza delivery job in the winter and my "pool boy/gardener" summer job.
 
the spirit of the law shows good intent but the practice discounts a personal life.

There is a natural protective nature of the ones we love and we will always work to help them
 
the spirit of the law shows good intent but the practice discounts a personal life.

There is a natural protective nature of the ones we love and we will always work to help them

Or human nature. For the most part I could see how a dentist would almost automatically treat his wife, kids or ??. Especially if they didn't have a dental plan lol why fork over good $$ to someone else?

IMO that's like being a plumber and if the sink leaks in the kitchen, not being allowed to work on it.....Or if you wife's car breaks down, being a mechanic and not being allowed to fix it.....or a doctor and your wife falls off a chair and breaks their arm, "Sorry dear, you're going to have to suffer...."....

(I don't get your last statement there Psmerf)
 
A family leaves their home for their regularly scheduled day. Parents a lawyer and a surgeon, son and daughter off to school. During the walk to school, the children are both struck by an out of control car. The boy is critically injured and will require a trauma surgeon to put him back together. The is prepped and in the operating when the trauma surgeon says, "I can't operate on him, he's my son" I'll assume that everyone knows the mother is the trauma surgeon, but there was a time when this wouldn't have been the case right?

This law regarding dentists is out-dated, but if it's still there so abide by the rule. Why not just trade off with another dentist? In the article, a Waterloo Chiropractor lost his license for treating his girlfriend. I didn't research anything about surgeons or general practitioners, but it's an interesting question can/should they treat direct/extended family, would their emotions outweight common sense. This would be the same for Psychiatrists and Counsellors too. It is my understanding that MDs cannot write prescriptions for family members and that is more of a drug control issue.

Tboy's scenario of the doctor helping their spouse at home with a broken arm, that's basic first aid and stretching the scenario to suit his thought. Sure, if you have a plumbing problem and you're a plumber fix it that's not going to physically harm a human, and there probably isn't an oath or rule on the trade ticket for that. If you're a plumber and you have an electrical problem that you attempt to fix and get shocked and require EMS, and your spouse is the ER doctor, you might be screwed!
 
Of course my examples suit my thoughts, why else would I use examples? DOH. Ok, change the broken arm to your wife cuts her finger dicing carrots. You have your doctor bag, with sutures, disinfectant, and all the necessary accroutrements. Are you telling me the doctor wouldn't stitch her right up? Hardly.

As for shrinks, are you trying to tell me that if a spouse has emotional problems that she needs help with that a shrink would say (when she wanted to get some things off her chest) "sorry honey, I can't listen to you, you have to go talk to a total stranger"? Hrrrmph yeah right. That marriage would last, oh about 4 weeks.

As for "trading off" with other dentists, that is illegal as it is "the barter system" and the government frowns on that as they don't get any income tax revenue from it. As for "the rule is there so abide by it"....there are speed limits on every road in Ontario. Do you abide by them always? Have you ever had anal sex? If you have you've broken an archaic law in Ontario against sodomy.

As for "emotions outweighing" common sense. We're talking fillings here. I don't see any emotional involvement whatsoever. Taking that to the next level, what if a dentist is an orthidontist? You telling me they shouldn't treat their son or daughter for braces? I should think their vested interest would produce better results as opposed to a relative stranger.

As for your example of a plumber getting a shock. That is totally different in this situation as you're swapping out trades there. It would be like a dentist treating his wife for cancer or whatever. A better example would be if a plumber was dating someone and their faucet needed a washer replaced.

For the record, when I was in relationships and my gf needed work done around the house I did it for them as opposed to having them call and pay a stranger. I see NO difference between this, a dentist, a lawyer, or any other trade or profession.....I mean seriously, if I'm an accountant, and my spouse needs an accountant, wtf shouldn't I be able to do her books for her?

The law is archaic and should be modified. To have a chiropractor lose his licence because he treated his gf is absolutely ludicrous and IMO a complete waste of the court's time.
 
I understand why a psychologist shouldn't treat their family and I see why there are rules for teachers not to have sex with their students but I see dentists or doctors more akin to car mechanics or plumbers.
It would be ridiculous for your mechanic to have an oath not to have sex with their clients, why is it different for a dentist?
 
Of course my examples suit my thoughts, why else would I use examples? DOH. Ok, change the broken arm to your wife cuts her finger dicing carrots. You have your doctor bag, with sutures, disinfectant, and all the necessary accroutrements. Are you telling me the doctor wouldn't stitch her right up? Hardly.
You enjoy twisting situations/scenarios to meet your agenda. You didn't comprehend the first time; the broken arm is stabilized at home but will need xrays, splint or casting. The sliced finger is a basic first aid scenario as well, stitching up a finger isn't a big deal (unless it's against the Doctor's College).

As for shrinks, are you trying to tell me that if a spouse has emotional problems that she needs help with that a shrink would say (when she wanted to get some things off her chest) "sorry honey, I can't listen to you, you have to go talk to a total stranger"? Hrrrmph yeah right. That marriage would last, oh about 4 weeks.
You insist on spinning the wheel. If there is an immediate crisis or potential emergency of course the psychiatrist (spouse) is going to intervene, but that's not treating the spouse as a patient.

As for "trading off" with other dentists, that is illegal as it is "the barter system" and the government frowns on that as they don't get any income tax revenue from it. As for "the rule is there so abide by it"....there are speed limits on every road in Ontario. Do you abide by them always? Have you ever had anal sex? If you have you've broken an archaic law in Ontario against sodomy.
I never said they didn't pay for the dental work, but I can see how you would immediately take a spin at that. Ok, if the dentist works on their family, do they pay? The government would frown upon that. You're a skilled tradesmen have you ever exchanged services with other tradespersons? Have you ever done a job for cash? That would be frowned upon as well. I stated the law is outdated and should be re-written. The Dentists, Doctors and other Professionals have to abide by the rules of their college. This is not about speed limits or my indulgences. There's a specific scenario and you use other scenarios that just don't fit with the situation at hand. I will say that there are probably 100's or 1000's of archaic Federal, Provincial and Municipal laws and by-laws that not many know about and break unknowingly.

As for "emotions outweighing" common sense. We're talking fillings here. I don't see any emotional involvement whatsoever. Taking that to the next level, what if a dentist is an orthidontist? You telling me they shouldn't treat their son or daughter for braces? I should think their vested interest would produce better results as opposed to a relative stranger. You're telling me that any orthodontist doesn't have a vested interest in doing their job properly. It's their reputation and livelihood on the line. The orthodontist/parent scenario applies equally; however, if their college says it's inappropriate or illegal, they must follow the direction.

As for your example of a plumber getting a shock. That is totally different in this situation as you're swapping out trades there. It would be like a dentist treating his wife for cancer or whatever. A better example would be if a plumber was dating someone and their faucet needed a washer replaced. Does the plumber have a ticket to do electrical work or is the plumber a know-it-all, Do-it-yourself individual? That Mike Holmes is going to be called in later to fix the problems:lol:

For the record, when I was in relationships and my gf needed work done around the house I did it for them as opposed to having them call and pay a stranger. I see NO difference between this, a dentist, a lawyer, or any other trade or profession.....I mean seriously, if I'm an accountant, and my spouse needs an accountant, wtf shouldn't I be able to do her books for her?
How long ago were the relationships? Are they archaic?:lol:You see no difference because you don't have a professional designation, and I understand your point. Every professional designation has a college or association they answer to, which keeps a standard for all in their fields. Is it worth losing your job.

The law is archaic and should be modified. To have a chiropractor lose his licence because he treated his gf is absolutely ludicrous and IMO a complete waste of the court's time.


Yes, there are many archaic laws, but those in such professions know what they can/cannot do, ignorance isn't an excuse. I hope that all works out for this dentist.
 
You're telling me that any orthodontist doesn't have a vested interest in doing their job properly. It's their reputation and livelihood on the line. The orthodontist/parent scenario applies equally; however, if their college says it's inappropriate or illegal, they must follow the direction.

You are just being obtuse, or are you really that ignorant? You were referring to an emotional attachement ie: surgeon not being able to perform due to their emotional investment or in other words, not being able to act under pressure with a clear head. THAT is the gist of the ER surgeon not being able to operate on their family member.

You say professionals have to abide by the rules as written. What makes you special that you don't have to abide by the rules as written? if it is ok for YOU to break the rules, then why should they be held to a higher standard?

You enjoy twisting situations/scenarios to meet your agenda.


Holy crap, hello? pot, this is kettle......jesus. You turned a plumber working on his gf's sink into a plumber working on his own electrical circuit...talk about twisting things around!

You can't have it both ways, you can't say "others have to abide by the rules and I don't", that is hypocritical and you my friend, are the epitome of that.

BTW: how's that ethiopian family getting along? or were you just talking out of your ass again?
 
You are just being obtuse, or are you really that ignorant? You were referring to an emotional attachement ie: surgeon not being able to perform due to their emotional investment or in other words, not being able to act under pressure with a clear head. THAT is the gist of the ER surgeon not being able to operate on their family member.

You say professionals have to abide by the rules as written. What makes you special that you don't have to abide by the rules as written? if it is ok for YOU to break the rules, then why should they be held to a higher standard? What professional rules have I broken? We're not talking about speeding, stealing or sex practises of a john. Is there a rule book for johns?

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Holy crap, hello? pot, this is kettle......jesus. You turned a plumber working on his gf's sink into a plumber working on his own electrical circuit...talk about twisting things around!

You can't have it both ways, you can't say "others have to abide by the rules and I don't", that is hypocritical and you my friend, are the epitome of that.

BTW: how's that ethiopian family getting along? or were you just talking out of your ass again?

A family leaves their home for their regularly scheduled day. Parents a lawyer and a surgeon, son and daughter off to school. During the walk to school, the children are both struck by an out of control car. The boy is critically injured and will require a trauma surgeon to put him back together. Then is prepped and in the operating when the trauma surgeon says, "I can't operate on him, he's my son" I'll assume that everyone knows the mother is the trauma surgeon, but there was a time when this wouldn't have been the case right?

This was a hypothetical scenario that a high-school teacher gave his class in the mid-eighties. In fact, there was no knowledge of what professions each parent had. It was one of those scenarios to open the minds that women could be surgeons.

Tboy, it's senseless to debate/discuss anything with you as eventually you turn foul. Enjoy the long weekend.
 
A family leaves their home for their regularly scheduled day. Parents a lawyer and a surgeon, son and daughter off to school. During the walk to school, the children are both struck by an out of control car. The boy is critically injured and will require a trauma surgeon to put him back together. Then is prepped and in the operating when the trauma surgeon says, "I can't operate on him, he's my son" I'll assume that everyone knows the mother is the trauma surgeon, but there was a time when this wouldn't have been the case right?

This was a hypothetical scenario that a high-school teacher gave his class in the mid-eighties. In fact, there was no knowledge of what professions each parent had. It was one of those scenarios to open the minds that women could be surgeons.

Tboy, it's senseless to debate/discuss anything with you as eventually you turn foul. Enjoy the long weekend.

Playing the martyr are we? You made it personal.....and there's no use debating with me because, in this case, you know I'm right.

Why can't the surgeon operate on the patient? BECAUSE SHE IS HIS PARENT, NOT because she's female......why can't she operate? Because she has an emotional investment that might prevent her from doing her job properly.

Rules are rules. If you insist on dentists, doctors, and every other "professional" abide by the rules then so should you. Speeding is NOT following the rules therefore if you speed, you're a hypocrite.......If you've had anal sex, you're a hypocrite, if you've jaywalked, you're a hypocrite. So either everyone doesn't have to follow arcane rules or everyone does.......
 
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