Have you ever been caught cheating?.

[tboy]

Oh I'm a people person, just not all people. Anyone who seems to get along with everyone isn't being honest with themselves, or others......I don't hide my dislike of some people behind niceties or platitudes.......and your response is typical: I don't love all women so I'm not a people person...lol...yeah right.

Actually, forgiving and trusting are part and parcel of the same issue. You cannot trust someone who has wronged you because you can't forgive them for what they've done. You can't forgive someone yet not trust them because if you really had forgiven them, trust or mistrust wouldn't be an issue.

I don't think trust is a percentage. Either you trust someone (in this case, with fidelity or infidelity) or you don't. You can't say "I trust him completely as long as I can check his emails....". That isn't trust, that is MIStrust.

Don't get me wrong here, I think he's scum actually. Sure to err is human but not when it comes to fidelity. There is no reason good enough to break one's vows. If he was having issues with you due to weight, no sexaul contact, whatever, that is the time for therapy not going out and getting some strange. The second his dick went inside this other women, he forfeited his marriage IMO. My opinion was and still is he should be kicked to the curb......unless of course you agreed to an open marriage like some have, then that's a whole 'nother story.

 

[kefrm]

and by the way. When I helped him start a business it was a couple of months into our relationship, years before we had any kids. I did it for him and him alone. There was no way to tell if our relationship would last. There were no thought of marriage or children, I didn't know if we would last 6 months at that time.
He was unhappy at his job and he walked out because his boss was an a$$hole. Rather than having to go back to him (which is what HE believed his only other option was) he wanted to work for himself. I supported that decision mentally, physically, financially...in every way.
He was 18 and we had known eachother just months...don't for one minute think that I was doing that for my own future...I just simply cared for him so much I wanted him to be happy.

 

[tboy]

and by the way. When I helped him start a business it was a couple of months into our relationship, years before we had any kids. I did it for him and him alone. There was no way to tell if our relationship would last. There were no thought of marriage or children, I didn't know if we would last 6 months at that time.
He was unhappy at his job and he walked out because his boss was an a$$hole. Rather than having to go back to him (which is what HE believed his only other option was) he wanted to work for himself. I supported that decision mentally, physically, financially...in every way.
He was 18 and we had known eachother just months...don't for one minute think that I was doing that for my own future...I just simply cared for him so much I wanted him to be happy.

That may be all well and good but here it is, 14 yrs later and you're still bringing it up......just saying is all......

 

[kefrm]

Oh I'm a people person, just not all people. Anyone who seems to get along with everyone isn't being honest with themselves, or others......I don't hide my dislike of some people behind niceties or platitudes.......

Actually, forgiving and trusting are part and parcel of the same issue. You cannot trust someone who has wronged you because you can't forgive them for what they've done. You can't forgive someone yet not trust them because if you really had forgiven them, trust or mistrust wouldn't be an issue.

I don't think trust is a percentage. Either you trust someone (in this case, with fidelity or infidelity) or you don't. You can't say "I trust him completely as long as I can check his emails....". That isn't trust, that is MIStrust.

Don't get me wrong here, I think he's scum actually. Sure to err is human but not when it comes to fidelity. There is no reason good enough to break one's vows. If he was having issues with you due to weight, no sexaul contact, whatever, that is the time for therapy not going out and getting some strange. The second his dick went inside this other women, he forfeited his marriage IMO. My opinion was and still is he should be kicked to the curb......unless of course you agreed to an open marriage like some have, then that's a whole 'nother story.

Trust and forgiveness are two seperate issues. I can forgive you for stealing bread and cheese from my store because you were starving but I wouldn't trust you to watch my cash register so I can run an errand. I can forgive what he did but not be sure he won't do it again. I never said I trusted him now. I don't, but I hope I will soon. You can trust but not 100%. I trust him to go to work, to go fishing but not trust him to stay over night to fish 2 days in a row at his buddies place where he claimed to be while he was f*cking her. If he gets rid of two buddies I asked him to then I think the trust can come back 100% in time.

 

[tboy]

Sorry, but you didn't really forgive someone for stealing a loaf of bread otherwise you would have no problem leaving them to watch the cash. YOu might have understood why they did it, but you most certainly didn't forgive them........

We're not talking about him going to the store, or going to work. We're talking about trusting him with fidelity. In that case you can either trust him 100% or not at all. There's no middle ground. There's no such thing as "kind of faithful" or "sort of cheating".

You asked him to get rid of two buddies? Why, was he fucking one of them?

What does his choice in buddies have to do with you trusting him? (this is one of those female BS things I love to call em on....)


What's next, tell him what kind of car to buy so you can trust him?

What clothes to buy so you can trust him?

What's next? "if you shave your head I'll trust you again"????

 

[kefrm]

He met the whore through the buddies. One is her cousin and the other is her friend. The friend lives with a girl who works with the whore and the whore parties at their place.
They first met 'cause the buddy who is not her cousin was fishing with him and his gfriend brought the whore to the weigh in station to meet them when they came back from fishing. He stayed at that buddies house that night and she was there drinking.
The whore lives almost an hour away from us. If he doesn't hang out with those two guys he will never run into her by accident. He's only known these guys for about a year and a half and only fishes with them. They're not lifelong friends. They have no friends in common, he met them on a fishing site online. Not a huge sacrifice if you ask me. I'm not asking him to give up fishing.

I have never asked him to give up anything for me in 14 years. Even if this is an unreasonable request it's not unreasonable.

You can forgive a person for doing something without trusting them. Hell, you can forgive something that was done to you and still hate the person who did it. I stand by the two are not one and the same.

Can you trust someone and not forgive them? For instance, your buddy has gets drunk and gets into a car accident. Maybe he seriously causes someone you love serious injury. You have seen him suffer for what he's done. He's given up drinking for good. He turned himself in to the police, did his time. He's done everything he could to try to make things right (as best as he can). You truely believe he'll never drink again and maybe he's even given up driving. You trust he'll never drink and drive again for sure. Does that mean you've forgiven him for what he did? Maybe someone actually died in the accident, someone you love. You know he won't do it again, you trust that 100% so that means all is forgiven?
I dont think so.

 

[kefrm]

We're not talking about him going to the store, or going to work. We're talking about trusting him with fidelity. In that case you can either trust him 100% or not at all. There's no middle ground. There's no such thing as "kind of faithful" or "sort of cheating".

Sorry I don't remember saying I'll trust him not to cheat. I remember saying trust him in general. I want to trust him that he won't hurt me again. Not just by cheating 'cause the lies that went along with that hurt just as much. It's can I trust him to consider my feelings, can I trust him to make the choices that won't destroy our relationship once and for all?
Yes, fidelity is the biggest part of it, there's no question about that.
But, when the whore shows up at the launch when he's out with his buddy, they've already decided to go get some dinner when they get back to shore and she's there and says she'll go along for a bite to eat...it's not cheating to go get some food with her but would it hurt me? Yes, it would. I dont' want him having anything to do with her ever again. I don't want him texting her, talking on the phone or running into her. Can I trust that he'd simply walk away when she showed up? No, I dont think he would. He's not like that, at the very least he'd be polite and make small talk. I am not comfortable with even that.
Can I trust that he won't screw her? Hopefully in time I'll trust him again so maybe yes, but do I trust he'd just ignore her if she was there? No.
If he wasn't fishing with anyone she knows would she show up at a boat launch. no way, how the hell would she ever know when he'd be there?

 

[tboy]

Do I hear the sound of tap dancing in the air? pitter pat pitter pat pitter pat.........

If these are only fishing buddies and yeah they are more involved with "the other woman" than he, then the request isn't unreasonable. But then again, you didn't explain this when you stated you requested he give up 2 buddies......

If they were long term friends? and a woman told me to give them up? I'd tell her to take a high jump off a low bridge.....or a low jump off of a high bridge...something like that.......

 

[kefrm]

Do I hear the sound of tap dancing in the air? pitter pat pitter pat pitter pat.........

If these are only fishing buddies and yeah they are more involved with "the other woman" than he, then the request isn't unreasonable. But then again, you didn't explain this when you stated you requested he give up 2 buddies......

If they were long term friends? and a woman told me to give them up? I'd tell her to take a high jump off a low bridge.....or a low jump off of a high bridge...something like that.......

Once again, I haven't been writing every detail of our lives, just chatting about what has happened and what has happened. Filling in the blanks isn't tap dancing it's just filling in the blanks. He's only known them a short while and they are his only connection to her. He met them online on a fishing board and I don't think they should be so important to him to put our relationship in risk any more thank it already is. I've asked him to give those two people up partly because (no mostly because) of what I already wrote but there's also the fact that just hearing their names reminds me of her. He is a big boy and can decide for himself but hanging out with those two guys (and he has at least 20 fishing buddies so it's really not a huge sacrifice) is something I can't live with and I've told him I can't. He has his decisions to make and I have mine. If he can't live without their friendship that he'll keep hanging out with them. If I cant live with him hanging out with them and probably seeing her (bumping into her at their houses) then I'll leave him in the spring when he starts fishing with them again. He's got a few months to make up his mind but I have the right to make my decisions as well. At least I'm being straightforward with him and telling him that I won't be working on the relationship any longer if he continues to fish with them in the spring.
For the record. He only has one friend that he's known longer than he's known me. He doesn't really hang out with him any longer but talks to him on occassion. I'm not a huge fan of the guy but whatever, they're friendsm what can I do?
As I said before he moved every year of his life and never really had the chance to make lifelong friends. He moved all over the city and in and out of the province.

I have never asked him to give up anyone I didn't like before now and now it's because of her not them. I wouldn't really care how much I hated them if they weren't friends /related to her. What do I care who he spends his time on the boat with? Doesnt mean I have to spend time with them.
Sorry if I left out relevent details, wasn't on purpose.
I'm not an unreasonable person and I'm not a demanding bitch. My brother in law is with one of those and I hate her...she's just awful to be around. I think I'm probably more giving/forgiving than the average but just not as much as my husband is.

 

[Auggie]

You've left out an important detail, quit tap dancing around it.

Do you clean the fish for him? :he:

 

[kefrm]

LOL
nope I don't but I bait my own hooks, take the fish off the hooks and spend countless hours in the boat when it's possible.
I also pack him lunches and clothes to help him get ready for fishing trips (and apparently other trips that I'd rather not think about anymore).

 

[kefrm]

hell I'll bet I've even made her lunch one or two times over the summer!

 

[Auggie]

I was going to ask if you packed lunches for his trips but I thought it might be a bit too personal.

Can I ask if you trim down there for him, maybe even a smooth shave? :he:

 

[tboy]

I was going to ask if you packed lunches for his trips but I thought it might be a bit too personal.

Can I ask if you trim down there for him, maybe even a smooth shave? :he:

that's what is known as a "box" lunch lol.......:kiss:

 

[HOF]

kefrm & tboy would you just get a room, and auggie wait outside for your turn!


What does it mean?
He has commitment issues.

 

[Auggie]

What does it mean?
He has commitment issues.

I don't see that, he was fully committed for a long time and then led into temptation.
The oldest story in the Bible.

Kudos to kefrm for being able to forgive and understand. That's rare to find someone with her patience, but I'm glad she knows when to draw the line.

 

[HOF]

Traditional version:
Our Father, Who art in heaven
Hallowed be Thy Name;
Thy kingdom come,
Thy will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread,
and forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us;
and lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil. Amen.

Newer version:

Our Father, Who is in heaven,
Holy is Your Name;
Your kingdom come,
Your will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread,
and forgive us our sins,
as we forgive those who sin against us;
and lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil. Amen.

Two versions: lead us not into temptation (don't cheat) but deliver us from evil (other woman)

His commitment faded for whatever reason, he stepped outside of his vow, and that becomes the commitment issues that I speak of. He may or may not break his commitment again, but it may break the spirit of kefrm in the meantime. The burden is kefrm's to worry about his committal issues and the onus is on him to prove himself. I wish kefrm the best and good luck.

 

[kefrm]

Thanks HOF. I know it's probably kind of stupid to give it another chance and it may break me as you said but I'm just giving him the chance to prove himself and maybe for me to prove myself for my own faults. I never claimed I was perfect so I'm hoping (and maybe it's unrealistic) that with the changes that we've both made because of this experience will bring us to a new and happier place in our relationship.

All I can do right now is to go day by day doing what I believe is best for me. Ultimately what's best for me will be best for the kids because they're happiest when I'm happy.

 

[SillyGirl]

Thanks HOF. I know it's probably kind of stupid to give it another chance and it may break me as you said but I'm just giving him the chance to prove himself and maybe for me to prove myself for my own faults. I never claimed I was perfect so I'm hoping (and maybe it's unrealistic) that with the changes that we've both made because of this experience will bring us to a new and happier place in our relationship.

All I can do right now is to go day by day doing what I believe is best for me. Ultimately what's best for me will be best for the kids because they're happiest when I'm happy.

I respect you for giving it another chance. All long-term relationships go through times of trouble, and during those times it's not always clear if things will turn around or not...the only way to find out is to try.

If it doesn't work out, you won't look back and wonder if you did everything you could.

 

[kefrm]

Thats exactly how I feel SillyGirl. I can work on the relationship for the next few months, or year or even years and can always end it when I feel it's not working. If I end it in anger now I may always wonder what if and may have a hard time moving on.