Made with Love

Should managers nd restaurant owners get tips?

Butch

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The provincial government fighting for restaurant servers to keep more of their money is like a cop introducing a bank robber to his accountant.
Premier Dalton McGuinty is supporting NDP MPP Michael Prue’s private member’s bill aimed at prohibiting restaurant managers and owners from taking a cut of servers’ tips.
Wanting employees to keep the money they’ve earned is as well-intentioned a goal as, say, banning plastic bags. But it stems from a Playskool perspective of how the restaurant kingdom works.

This is a cash economy. Most industry professionals that I’ve spoken with over the years say that the average amount servers declare on their taxes is 15 per cent of their actual income (until they want to buy a home). If that is true, it renders this kibitzing over one to four per cent as only enough hot air to steam Har gow.

According to the Employment Standards Act, tips are not wages. The government has no say in how they are divided, which restaurants do in many different ways — pooling; tip-outs to the front of the house with different rates for hosts, runners, bartenders or managers; tip-outs to back-of-house cooks or dishwashers; percentages to the house based on tips or gross sales. There is currently nothing governing any of this and it all gets cut up like so much loot.

Although tips would still be allowed to be shared among staff, managers and owners would be cut out of the equation.
The right intentions are there, but this isn’t really how the real world works.

At the mid-range restaurant Bestellen, for example, tips are first divided evenly between servers and bartenders, before a six per cent (of sales) tip-out to hosts, runners and kitchen staff. Managers are also tipped out, although the restaurant wouldn’t specify by how much.

“A manager runs his butt off, is a support staff, is a bartender in a good portion of his role, is a server when needed to be, sells wine. Their job is to do whatever it takes. They cross a lot of those roles,” says co-owner Ryan Sarfeld, who can’t see this law working.

The house does not take a slice of tips. “No. I’d love to,” adds Sarfeld.
At the more high-end Nota Bene, the managers, but not the owners, are also tipped out. Partner Yannick Bigourdan would rather not say how much, but said the staff is responsible for deciding how to divide tips, with little intervention from him.

“I personally don’t agree with (the proposed bill) because we are going to be losing a lot of good managers,” Bigourdan says. “Whatever we have to increase in salaries or whatever, it’s the end customer that always pays for it, the principle of economics where if everything is going up, eventually the prices are going up, too.”

Customers have the luxury of sticker shock. They can look at the menu prices without imagining that they’re paying for real estate, labour, gas, credit card fees or even water cleaned with an expensive filtration system. So from that point of view, it’s easy to be shocked over tip division.

“It’s never part of our understanding that’s going to the owner or the management,” says McGuinty.

The premier may also be shocked that sometimes a child will simply wet his toothbrush without brushing his teeth.

https://www.thestar.com/living/article/1211534#article
 
The premier may also be shocked that sometimes a child will simply wet his toothbrush without brushing his teeth. :LMAO:
 
I think it all depends on the salary of the manager.....many get bonus' based on sales, feedback from customers etc and since tips are arranged so that they are the lion's share of a waitstaff's income, no, managers and owners (definitely) shouldn't get a piece of the pie, their piece is bigger than the waiter's already.

I also agree that cooks shouldn't get a tip out at the end of the night either as most of them are paid quite decently......

Busers, runners, the maitre'd, yes, they get a tip out because again, they aren't well paid and they do play a part in making one's dining experience a good one. Plus, if a waiter didn't tip the busboys, their tables would never get cleaned lol...the manager only really determines who is on staff and other "management" duties that don't involve actually serving the customers......The managers i've known get a bonus based on sales.....
 
tboy said:
I think it all depends on the salary of the manager.....many get bonus' based on sales, feedback from customers etc and since tips are arranged so that they are the lion's share of a waitstaff's income, no, managers and owners (definitely) shouldn't get a piece of the pie, their piece is bigger than the waiter's already.

I also agree that cooks shouldn't get a tip out at the end of the night either as most of them are paid quite decently......

Busers, runners, the maitre'd, yes, they get a tip out because again, they aren't well paid and they do play a part in making one's dining experience a good one. Plus, if a waiter didn't tip the busboys, their tables would never get cleaned lol...the manager only really determines who is on staff and other "management" duties that don't involve actually serving the customers......The managers i've known get a bonus based on sales.....

I totally agree with you. I spent my summers during school working first as a bus boy and then a waiter. Luckily I never had to tip out the owners/managers. I would have been fuming if I was asked too, especially considering I had to pay if I had a walk out.
 
forgot about the dine and dash, yeah, the wait staff has to cover it...i've dated a waitress before and that can really eat into their earnings.....instead of gaining 15% extra for their effort they lose 100% and it takes 7-8 tables to make that back.....
 
I've always wondered why the waiters and waitresses are held responsible for the dine and dash. It's really not that faulty if it happens during peak times is it?
 
Years ago I went toe to toe with a bar owner about a dine and dash when I was a waiter. I told him, you stand up to 8 drunken college football players who have had about 90 beers in total, they are right outside.

Needless to say he didn't. (there is far more to that story, but I ended up walking out).
 
SexandmoreSex said:
How much do the waiters make on tips alone daily plus their wages. Compared to the cooks?

I was making about $200 a day (Thurs. Fri. Sat. ) at a college drinking bar. About 12 hours work per shift. This was 20+ years ago.
 
a 1 player said:
I was making about $200 a day (Thurs. Fri. Sat. ) at a college drinking bar. About 12 hours work per shift. This was 20+ years ago.

Wow, imagine what they make now. I have to say they should share the wealth.
 
Al Bumin said:
Wow, imagine what they make now. I have to say they should share the wealth.

Disagree. I worked my ass off, got beer faster than the others, cleared the tables faster... I earned every cent of that money myself, and I got it because I was BETTER than the others. To be penalized for being better and working harder is the epitome of evil.
 
a 1 player said:
Disagree. I worked my ass off, got beer faster than the others, cleared the tables faster... I earned every cent of that money myself, and I got it because I was BETTER than the others. To be penalized for being better and working harder is the epitome of evil.

I agree, the only one that should share in a bit of the tips are the bus boys and maybe hostesses. I don't think the cooks should, they should be paid by the employer.
 
a 1 player said:
I was making about $200 a day (Thurs. Fri. Sat. ) at a college drinking bar. About 12 hours work per shift. This was 20+ years ago.

wow...you must have easily saved up to purchase big expensive items such as a house...or spent it unwisely.
 
peace said:
wow...you must have easily saved up to purchase big expensive items such as a house...or spent it unwisely.

I spent some on booze, some on drugs, some on women, then blew the rest.
 
a 1 player said:
I spent some on booze, some on drugs, some on women, then blew the rest.

Strip joints, MP. I hear you bud. But aren't we glad we got smart enough to get over it?.
 
A posh Marriott beach resort in Muskoka is threatening to fire spa staff who won’t fork over almost half their tips to the hotel — just as Premier Dalton McGuinty seeks a ban on “tipping out” to the boss.
The ultimatum, detailed in a letter obtained by the Star, will see spa customers at the Rosseau Muskoka near Port Carling charged a higher 20 per cent gratuity on their manicures, body wraps, and other treatments with 50 per cent of the tip going to staff who perfom the hands-on services.

But that’s less than the existing 18 per cent gratuity deal in which they give about two percentage points to the spa’s administrative workers. Roughly 20 employees are affected, mostly women, sources said.

MORE:
Dalton McGuinty touts NDP bill on tipping


“Should continuing your employment with The Rosseau . . . under this new policy not be acceptable to you, your employment will terminate at the end of the four-week period as outlined in this letter,” hotel general manager Tony Tamburro wrote on June 11.

It was the same day New Democrat MPP Michael Prue (Beaches-East York) introduced a private members’ bill at Queen’s Park that caught the premier’s attention. The bill aims to outlaw owners and managers from taking a cut of workers’ tips.

“It’s a pay cut,” Prue said of the hotel’s demand, noting he has heard similar stories since bringing his bill forward.
The proposed legislation prompted McGuinty to say that when it comes to tips, “it’s never part of our understanding that’s going to the owner or the management … we should have a law that reflects that.”

MORE: Hey Dalton McGuinty, here’s a tip on how the restaurant industry really works


In the three-page letter, the hotel — where rooms start at $269 per night — maintains the clawback is necessary “to efficiently manage our costs and to remain competitive within the industry.”
Staffers have another description.

“It’s kind of like blackmail,” said a spa worker at the hotel on Lake Rosseau, asking that her name not be used for fear she would be dismissed.
“Everyone feels disgusted. Morale is low.”

Tamburro referred a call from the Star to hotel spokeswoman Leah Leslie, who said she was not aware of the letter and would check with him before responding. A second call from the Star was not returned Tuesday.
Prue said he is shocked at the hotel’s approach.

“This is one of the most brazen examples I’ve ever seen where there’s a letter detailing it with the threat right in there,” he added.
The labour ministry said it is taking note of the situation at the Marriott, operated as a franchise by Canadian Niagara Hotels Inc., owner of several hotels in the Falls, since the hotel formerly known as Red Leaves went into receivership last year.

“We appreciate that this issue has been brought to our attention,” said Greg Dennis, spokesman for Labour Minister Linda Jeffrey.
“We have discussed the issue of tip-outs with Mr. Prue and recognize that Ontario workers deserve to be treated with respect by their employers.”

The government has pledged to meet with industry stakeholders as it develops its own legislation or works with Prue to fine-tune his bill.
“We look forward to continuing discussions aimed at ensuring a fair and balanced relationship between employers and employees,” Dennis added.

Under the new policy at The Rosseau Muskoka, the 20 per cent gratuity would see 10 percentage points go to the spa staff, 8.75 percentage points to the hotel and 1.25 percentage points to administrative associates in the spa.

If customers wish to tip more than the 20 per cent, the extra portion “will go in full to the associate specified by the guest,” states the policy, which also notes that the 13 per cent HST will be charged on the 20 per cent gratuity.

Under the Employment Standards Act, there is nothing to stop bosses from scooping tips from their employees. Prue’s proposal would amend the law to specify “an employer shall not take any portion of an employee’s tips or other gratuities.”

The restaurant industry maintains such a law would be tough to enforce and wade into a complex mix of tip-sharing arrangements that differ from one establishment to another.

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada...r-tips-or-else-posh-muskoka-hotel-warns-staff
 
A posh Marriott beach resort in Muskoka is threatening to fire spa staff who won’t fork over almost half their tips to the hotel — just as Premier Dalton McGuinty seeks a ban on “tipping out” to the boss.
The ultimatum, detailed in a letter obtained by the Star, will see spa customers at the Rosseau Muskoka near Port Carling charged a higher 20 per cent gratuity on their manicures, body wraps, and other treatments with 50 per cent of the tip going to staff who perfom the hands-on services.

But that’s less than the existing 18 per cent gratuity deal in which they give about two percentage points to the spa’s administrative workers. Roughly 20 employees are affected, mostly women, sources said.

MORE:
Dalton McGuinty touts NDP bill on tipping


“Should continuing your employment with The Rosseau . . . under this new policy not be acceptable to you, your employment will terminate at the end of the four-week period as outlined in this letter,” hotel general manager Tony Tamburro wrote on June 11.

It was the same day New Democrat MPP Michael Prue (Beaches-East York) introduced a private members’ bill at Queen’s Park that caught the premier’s attention. The bill aims to outlaw owners and managers from taking a cut of workers’ tips.

“It’s a pay cut,” Prue said of the hotel’s demand, noting he has heard similar stories since bringing his bill forward.
The proposed legislation prompted McGuinty to say that when it comes to tips, “it’s never part of our understanding that’s going to the owner or the management … we should have a law that reflects that.”

MORE: Hey Dalton McGuinty, here’s a tip on how the restaurant industry really works


In the three-page letter, the hotel — where rooms start at $269 per night — maintains the clawback is necessary “to efficiently manage our costs and to remain competitive within the industry.”
Staffers have another description.

“It’s kind of like blackmail,” said a spa worker at the hotel on Lake Rosseau, asking that her name not be used for fear she would be dismissed.
“Everyone feels disgusted. Morale is low.”

Tamburro referred a call from the Star to hotel spokeswoman Leah Leslie, who said she was not aware of the letter and would check with him before responding. A second call from the Star was not returned Tuesday.
Prue said he is shocked at the hotel’s approach.

“This is one of the most brazen examples I’ve ever seen where there’s a letter detailing it with the threat right in there,” he added.
The labour ministry said it is taking note of the situation at the Marriott, operated as a franchise by Canadian Niagara Hotels Inc., owner of several hotels in the Falls, since the hotel formerly known as Red Leaves went into receivership last year.

“We appreciate that this issue has been brought to our attention,” said Greg Dennis, spokesman for Labour Minister Linda Jeffrey.
“We have discussed the issue of tip-outs with Mr. Prue and recognize that Ontario workers deserve to be treated with respect by their employers.”

The government has pledged to meet with industry stakeholders as it develops its own legislation or works with Prue to fine-tune his bill.
“We look forward to continuing discussions aimed at ensuring a fair and balanced relationship between employers and employees,” Dennis added.

Under the new policy at The Rosseau Muskoka, the 20 per cent gratuity would see 10 percentage points go to the spa staff, 8.75 percentage points to the hotel and 1.25 percentage points to administrative associates in the spa.

If customers wish to tip more than the 20 per cent, the extra portion “will go in full to the associate specified by the guest,” states the policy, which also notes that the 13 per cent HST will be charged on the 20 per cent gratuity.

Under the Employment Standards Act, there is nothing to stop bosses from scooping tips from their employees. Prue’s proposal would amend the law to specify “an employer shall not take any portion of an employee’s tips or other gratuities.”

The restaurant industry maintains such a law would be tough to enforce and wade into a complex mix of tip-sharing arrangements that differ from one establishment to another.

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada...r-tips-or-else-posh-muskoka-hotel-warns-staff

An angry backlash has forced a Marriott beach resort in Muskoka to scrap a scheme forcing spa employees to give almost half their tips to the hotel or be fired.The sudden switch by the Rosseau Muskoka follows a front-page Star story detailing the ultimatum facing workers since June 11, the same day New Democrat MPP Michael Prue proposed a ban on “tipping out” to bosses later endorsed by Premier Dalton McGuinty.

“I have no doubt they got spanked,” Prue said Thursday, referring to the hotel near Port Carling where rooms start at $269 nightly.
His private members’ bill to keep tips in the pockets of workers was backed by the minority Liberal premier as an idea whose time has come, given that customers leave gratuities as a reward for workers who provide service to them — not the management.

The hotel appears to have received that message loud and clear.
“In response to feedback from staff and clientele about our company’s recent decision to change our current gratuity structure at Spa Rosseau, we believe it prudent to reverse this decision and to maintain the gratuity structure as it is,” general manager Tony Tamburro said in a statement to the Star.

But he added other steps will be taken to ensure the financial viability of the spa, where services include a $35 children’s manicure, $45 for a basic man’s haircut, and an 80-minute massage and facial for $290.
“Over the coming months we will continue to explore new ways to ensure that Spa Rosseau is a profitable and sustainable business.”One spa employee said she is “cautiously excited” the tip demand — which would have amounted to about $50 a day — has been dropped.

“It’s a lot of money,” added the staffer, who requested anonymity.
“I want to thank the Star, its readers and our guests for their support and help to make this happen.”The hotel’s ultimatum to about 20 spa staff was issued in what Prue called a “brazen” three-page letter excerpted in the newspaper.“Being on the front page of the Toronto Star for this was probably one of their worst nightmares,” he said.

The veteran Beaches-East York MPP said he wasn’t surprised the posh resort on picturesque Lake Rosseau dropped the plan because his office was deluged with calls from people upset about the situation there.
“I told them they should call the hotel and let them know how they feel. The hotel was forced to back down because they would lose clients,” he added.

“If they have to raise the price of a room to make it profitable do that, but they shouldn’t be taking it off some poor masseuse.”
The resort is run as a Marriott franchise by Niagara Resorts (Muskoka) Inc., whose parent company Canadian Niagara Hotels Inc. operates several hotels in the Falls.“We take our role as an employer and member of the Muskoka community very seriously,” Tamburro said.“We are proud of our associates and the excellent service they provide to our patrons on our behalf each and every day.

The tersely worded letter from Tamburro to spa employees earlier this month explained the plan to claw back just under half their 20 per cent tips.“Should continuing your employment with The Rosseau ... under this new policy not be acceptable to you, your employment will terminate at the end of the four-week period as outlined in this letter,” he wrote.Sources at the hotel said most spa employees had reluctantly consented to the arrangement because they need their jobs.

The Ministry is Labour is meeting with industry and workers with an eye to fine-tuning Prue’s bill or developing legislation the government would table in the fall.
“We look forward to continuing discussions aimed at ensuring a fair and balanced relationship between employers and employees,” said Greg Dennis, spokesman for Labour Minister Linda Jeffrey.

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada...down-on-plan-to-take-portion-of-staffers-tips
 
Tamburro should be fired. He only backed down because he had no choice and I guarantee you he will somehow make the employees pay for the leak.

Madman, in situations like these is when I see a need for a union. Private corporate greed or a manager looking for brownie points, either way it's wrong.
 
I wonder how many calls the hotel received telling them they will be now booking somewhere else? They are in total damage control and deservingly so.
 
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