The "fag"

[cristycurves]

+1




@Cristy;

It's really confusing when you find out that someone you love and/or respect holds such hateful views because the regard in which you held them (prior to finding out) often comes into question as you question their skewed values against what you have come to love/respect about them in an effort to make sense of how this particular person could have such a badly deluded moral fiber.

This often sobering experience in opposing moral values happened to me a lot growing up as I began dating "outside of my race" and in doing so came to find that many of my family members were in fact prejudice; something I never knew, or had even imagined could be possible before it was a major source of conflict between us... What I did was stand up for what I believe in, which is equality, and tried to respectfully voice my views/concerns whenever their contradictory comments began. What I learned was that you cannot reach a point of rationality with people who are irrational within their views and opinions. My family could provide nothing to justify or lend credit to their plight, less to say "you just don't do that" and frequently raise question "if you had a child together, what would it be?" in their attempts to finalize the discussion. Nothing I ever said could change their minds or influence their opinions in any way.

What finally did change their minds was my giving birth to a beautiful baby boy who's 1/2 spanish, and in turn answering their question through his birth that "if we had a baby" he would be; a baby, a part of our family, their grandson/great grandson, our greatest treasure, their joy, a source of pride, and so many other blessed things which a baby brings to the world, but it was only after his birth that they 'got it' and became accepting of interracial couples- that was a 10 year process of enduring their hatred before it was finally changed through the process of love.


As to your friend; IMO, it's up to you whether or not you choose to associate with this person any longer.
If they're family, you're pretty much stuck with them; but if they're not, you're free to do as you so choose as far as any further associations are concerned...

As for me personally, I've been friends with people who are racist with the understanding that they keep their views and opinions to themselves, just as I have done with those persons in my life who happen to be deeply religious. Because the views/values they hold are not my own, I ask simply that they keep these things to themselves to ensure our relationship isn't strained by our differing opinions, and in doing so I've come to learn that if someone respects me enough they will abide my request without issue (and apologize very sincerely should they ever slip up) and where anyone decides to hold their views/opinions above the value of our friendship I just let them go as there is loss incurred because IMO they are of little value as friends if they cannot respect me and my personal boundaries.

Pamela first let me sincerely thank you for your kindness in responding so understandingly and for being so frank and sharing your personal story.
This person is a relative so cutting ties isn't possible, and I surprised myself by still wanting their company, which is conflicting, of course. But even at my age I'm still learning how to react properly and how to accept those with unpleasant or differing views than mine. I'm sure I'll be a work in progress until my final days.
I too have dealt with difficulties growing up as my parents were both racist and I too choose to date other races. Thankfully with time even some of the most hard headed can soften. Now, I don't try to change people I try and change how I react to them.

 

[Pamela]

I like your approach Pam!

I do struggle though with the emerging trend in modern societies of individuals who don't share similar values, or in fact hold violently opposing values too quickly being branded intolerant, racist, homophobic, misogynistic, etc. and with extreme prejudice. I'm not sure if it's a phenomenon born of political correctness, or maybe resulting from social media and the new digital age, but it surprises me more and more how so many emerging 'special interest groups' can be so quick to demonstrate the same degree of ignorance, intolerance, judgement and discrimination they claim to be fighting against in the first place.

How do you draw the line between 'labeling' someone simply because their value system is opposed, let's say, to inter-racial or same sex marriage, extreme feminism, spanking of children, homosexuality and/or LGBT lifestyles, and extending them the understanding and courtesy of respecting their beliefs and values for what they are?

Agreeing to disagree, and extending mutual respect is an effective strategy to find balance and a peaceful co-existence, but it's surprising these days how often the intolerance comes from the most vocal groups who are by coincidence, those with the biggest claims of persecution and discrimination.

Moral conservatism has become the most significant victim of the modern liberal movement - a surprising turn around the globe, and I often wonder if that spells longer term trouble for the very foundation and principles of the democratic systems that most civilized nations have been built upon.

Just an observation...thoughts?

Louis,

You've posed a very good question here "How do you draw the line between 'labeling' someone simply because their value system is opposed, let's say, to inter-racial or same sex marriage, extreme feminism, spanking of children, homosexuality and/or LGBT lifestyles, and extending them the understanding and courtesy of respecting their beliefs and values for what they are?" and I'll try my best to answer it as honestly and thoughtfully as I can.

I guess I just don't like or appreciate labels because I feel and understand that there is more to person than just a singular element or ethical reasoning which comprises them as whole.


You see, when people hold passionate beliefs towards something, that passion has to have stemmed from somewhere because we are not born racist, homophobic, or in any other predefined spectrum of sociological malformation- we are born as equals, and it's our life and its experiences which form and shape us into who we become as individuals over time. Thus, when I see that someone has strong views on something I tend to wonder "why" they feel so passionately about whatever that might be, and rather than holding them at bay to avoid conflict I seek to better understand them as individuals so that I can understand why they might think/feel the way they do on anything in particular.

I think that because I accept nothing at "face value" I don't see labels, but instead I'm left with questions, ie; why is this person racist? Has something happened to this person which makes him/her feel this way, or has their racism been passed down through parental conditioning? Has society and pop culture curbed this person towards racism, or does it stem from something deeper than that? What makes this person feel they are superior to someone else simply due to their religion, skin colour, gender, sexual orientation, what have you? Is this part of a broad spectrum/disordered view of the world or is this person generally 'normal' with some circumstantial social prejudices? Where did this belief come from, and can I do anything to compassionately build this person's better understanding in order to help them see things differently?

I'm not sure if this makes sense; but if you take the person out of the equation and look at the problem at hand it becomes very hard to be offended by someone's personal circumstances or hold that in a negative view, and while I might not respect a person's beliefs per say, I am capable of respecting a person despite their beliefs and allowing them the opportunity to keep their opinions to themselves.

Also, what you have to bare in mind is the context in realizing that someone is racist, homophobic, etc... Because should I find that out about them prior to any sort of friendship/pleasant association having been formed I'd not likely go out of my way to befriend such a person simply because I don't yet know if we share anything in common and the only thing I've been able to ascertain is our conflicting views; but I think that's pretty normal because people generally choose their associations based on commonalities, not conflict.


RE: "My thoughts"

Sometimes activists don't realize how much they activate the very thing they're fighting to deter with their strong words, opinions, what have you; but in saying that there is certainly some merit to the activist plight and method because someone has to make some noise to spread awareness in order for acceptance and action to take place within society as a whole.

IMO the world needs both the radical type of public activist and the compassionate behind the scenes up close and personal activists in order for true change to take place

 

[Pamela]

Pamela first let me sincerely thank you for your kindness in responding so understandingly and for being so frank and sharing your personal story.
This person is a relative so cutting ties isn't possible, and I surprised myself by still wanting their company, which is conflicting, of course. But even at my age I'm still learning how to react properly and how to accept those with unpleasant or differing views than mine. I'm sure I'll be a work in progress until my final days.
I too have dealt with difficulties growing up as my parents were both racist and I too choose to date other races. Thankfully with time even some of the most hard headed can soften. Now, I don't try to change people I try and change how I react to them.

We are all a work in progress forever learning as we go on- I think you're a wonderful masterpiece Cristy

 

[MisterAsianLover]

Yup that's what a loved one called a gay man we were talking about!! What do you do? What do you say?
I was shocked, angered and saddened to learn that someone I care about is homophobic, judgemental, rude and well....... an asshole!!
you just never know who you're sitting down and dining with!!

Everyone segments others into groups - for positive and negative purposes. People call others derogatory political names, sex-based names etc.

I am sure you, as well, have said offensive and derogatory things in the recent past. We ALL do. To deny it is to be dishonest from the getgo.

 

[DannyDeVito]

Everyone segments others into groups - for positive and negative purposes. People call others derogatory political names, sex-based names etc.

I am sure you, as well, have said offensive and derogatory things in the recent past. We ALL do. To deny it is to be dishonest from the getgo.

Welcome to HUBGFE.

You don't sound like what's his name again Hmmmmmm

 

[cristycurves]

We are all a work in progress forever learning as we go on- I think you're a wonderful masterpiece Cristy

You made my day- how very kind of you to say-thank you:BigHug::BigHug::BigHug:

 

[Madman]

A very interesting thread. I think it's a generational issue. Older folks who grew up in a different era will use it more than the kids growing up today. People are people, you can't change how someone perceives someone different unless they are somehow touched by an individual they once discriminated against.

 

[Louis XIV]

Sometimes activists don't realize how much they activate the very thing they're fighting to deter with their strong words, opinions, what have you; but in saying that there is certainly some merit to the activist plight and method because someone has to make some noise to spread awareness in order for acceptance and action to take place within society as a whole.

Truth. ^^^^^^ /-Thumbs-up::/