Made with Love

Discussion: Sexual Assault, Sexual Harassment and Boundary Pushing in the industry.

Jessica Rain

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So I started this thread on the one red board and posted it in another thread on the other other red board. I figure it is only fitting I bring it here.

Now, I will add that when I wrote this, it was first thing in the morning, on 1 cup of coffee, and so there are parts that may be a little crude. During further discussion, I was able to see how some wording should have changed, one example may not have been the best, etc. But this really is for discussion, not nit-pickiness and where I have erred I can admit. In fairness, however, I will post it in its original form.

We have seen all these threads, news reports, interviews, etc from women describing the sexual harassment they put up in the workforce. Well let me say, folks, this industry is not immune to that bullshit either. You may think because escorts sell sex that we would not be able to be assaulted or certainly not sexually harassed but that is simply not the case.

Let me break down things a little.

Steathing - I don't even understand why this needs to be a discussion but apparently it does and not just for this hobby. I have experienced this outside of the hobby and it is a HUGE violation and to some people, it is akin to rape. It is certainly a form of sexual assault. When a woman decides she will have sex with you but only with a condom on, and you take that condom off, unknown to her - YOU ARE SEXUALLY ASSAULTING HER. Just sayin'. Can't really say anymore. It is wrong. It is a form of power and control, it is a form of sexual assault. End stop.

Negative consequence reviewing/threatening - We all know this happens, but we don't know just how much or how some comments may not seem like a threat to a negative review, but in fact are. When you say in a coy, teasing manner that if XXX is not done that won't bring about a good review, that is still a threat. A threat of a negative consequence if a sexual act is not performed. That is sexual harassment.

Some may know that a review in the TO agency section just had the title renamed. It was a negative review but from the OP's own words, he purposely titled the thread naming 3 escorts who were NOT involved so that the thread could garner more attention. Negatively impacting the searches of those women who by the OPs own words were so good he repeated several times. This is wrong and thankfully the OP did contact a mod for the change. But guys, come on - it should not need to be explained as to why this is wrong.

For the indies like me who screen and decline clients on a regular basis, it is NOT right to reply that you will negatively review us. That we are whores, losers, fucking cunts who should die. To continue to harass us. Do I really need to explain this one? Is it because you/they feel you/they can't be held accountable since you/they just discontinue communication? Is that why you/they feel that you/they can get away with it? Because I can tell you that there are these men on this board right now, reading this thread. I will bet money on it.

For those who have taken things a little past the normal SP/Client relationship, threaten to review negatively when she breaks things off is wrong too. Yes - even though you had a relationship, it is wrong. Why? Because it is wrong to try an get revenge after any relationship, but here, trying to destroy her business is wrong and a form of sexual harassment. Even worse are the guys who only do it to threaten and have no intention of actually doing it. That is just downright abusive, but that is another topic.



Boundary pushing

I just read an Ottawa review from a guy who was given a clear list of services and restrictions by an SP. Digits on vag only and no greek. So question for the class, does that mean to you that her ass is off limits? Is that what you understand to be the case with her after knowing that? So that would mean then, that trying to stick your fingers in her ass would mean that you are certainly not listening to her saying NO ASS PLAY. Let me make this very clear, that right there folks is a form of sexual assault. YES, yes it is. Why? Because you already knew the answer was NO. You should not have tried. Period. End Stop.

This is not a case of "guys can't do anything with a woman without being labelled a predator if she doesn't like something". That is not this at all. Yes, the way of making a pass at a lady has changed. 100% it has. It is no longer acceptable to physically make a sexual pass without getting consent PRIOR. You need to be asking for a yes instead of waiting for a no. That is the new rules. But in the case above, he already got the no and went for it anyways. That is 100% wrong.

Here is another example to show why getting a yes first instead of waiting for a no is the new rule and should be followed. In a thread on another board about FaceFucking and MPA's, some men were under the impression that the best way to obtain that knowledge was to just try and stick your tongue in her pussy during the body slide. Ummm no. Sorry but just no. NOT at all the right way to do it. The right way is to say " hey, that is a mighty fine pussy, you might if I take a lick?" Why, because she is an MPA, and while many of them offer lots of extras, they are not known as FS providers. You need to ask what they are. Not just sample and see if she says no.

I personally think with DATY, some men think they are doing the girl a favour so it should be ok, but that is just not the case. We already had a thread here about SP's and their personal desire to cum in a session. There were quite a few who said no. That would not be any different for an MPA, and honestly, why does any of that need explaining. No individual has the right to decide the sexual pleasure of another. And this is paid service so you are not, nor ever "doing her a favour". A favour would be sucking off the next guy in line so she can go get a latte.


Please let me make this clear one more time. Since this industry revolves around sex, pretty much anything you do that goes against what is considered proper behaviour, is not just a simple "oops', say sorry and move on from the "mistake". No. It is sexual assault, sexual harassment, sexual misconduct. Those are serious terms, serious words, serious actions, seriously negative behaviour. I could go on and on with examples, but there really are just too many to post. I am sure other ladies can fill in some examples of harassment, and sexual assault that they have experienced. Sexual Assault is not just the act of rape. It is so much more than that, and people need to wake up to that fact.

I can promise you if more women were treated properly in this industry, you would have way less jaded, angry and mechanical escorts. It wouldn't take them all out, but most escorts don't start out that way. They are just pushed to the limits and beyond and after time, you can only put up with so much before you start dishing it back out. That is not right for anyone. Escort or client.

So please don't be that guy. Just don't. Ask. That is all you have to do. Ask and then follow. It is not hard. I promise you it is not hard. Let's make 2018 a better year for women in the workplace and that includes this industry.


I am going to add that I am not in anyway trying to shame men as a whole, say that only women are assaulted, I am not trying to be an entitled bitch or get in on the #metoo movement. These are some things I have been accused of already and I would really just like to move past that.

Also, when speaking of the negative reviews, I am only speaking of FALSE negative reviews. Not legit ones.

So please, let's open this up for a discussion. I welcome polite and respectful difference of opinion. Please, no verbal castrations though. I have been battling in a few threads on a few boards and it is has been kind of exhausting. Probably why I saved this board for last. You guys have a much different way about discussions here and they are certainly easier to have. Not has combative which I like.

So opinions guys and gals??? Would love to hear them.
 
Good thread. Good topic. Good points. I don't think I disagree with any of them. This industry is about choice. SPs choose to go into the biz, and hobbyists choose to partake. Other than that, all common human courtesies still apply. Review forums exist for guys to share their experiences, and for guys to gather intel so that they can make a conscious choice.
 
What took you so long Hmmmmmm:unknw:

Sadly agree. Not much point discussing or debating on it as so many already gave their two cent's worth.


Come on, guys. Are you seriously going to bust my balls for this?

I posted on the others boards first for a couple of reasons.

1. The examples of reviews/threads I was using were on those boards. That is where they started. I posted Dec 31 and took off for New Years. came back on Jan 2 and posted it here on Jan 3. I don't think that is too long considering the holiday

2. The rosy board in Ottawa - I knew there would be no debate. On the red board - I knew the debate would be very bashing in some ways and honestly, it is exhausting. If you have seen the thread over there, posts of mine were 2 posts long because they were past the character limit amount. That is a lot of typing.

Plus you guys here are not so combative when posting for the most part. I certainly didn't want to take frustrations out here because of some bad apple posters there. Women can get emo. Even me. In case the memo wasn't sent out on that. LOL

This is not a slight against HUBGFE, it is actually the opposite.

And guido; many people said that I was an entitled bitch jumping on the #metoo bandwagon, are you saying that is your $.02 worth or do you have a different opinion?

There are plenty of people who are here that are not there, and every opinion matters.
 
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Boing and Leo are examples of entitled men, WTF guys she has a right to post anywhere and whenever she likes.

As for assault, of course consent should always be a must but for an escort who provides service if Daty , FS , Digits are part of that service the only consideration should be is the client clean, safe fingernail wise, and STD free.
 
I like a woman who speaks her mind:YMAPPLAUSE:

There will always be those that push the limits that they are allowed to in any profession. But when it comes to the safety of woman, stick to your guns ladies.
 
So, this is a very interesting thread, and I support Jessica's stated positions above. There is another reality in the industry that also bears discussion, and I'll use myself as an example.

Not long ago in this Board's Toxic Zone, the festering pile of shit known here as 'The Natural' posted a 'Fake News' thread accusing me not only of being a long-time solicitor and extortionist of BBFS, but also of getting numerous SP's pregnant only to abandon them and their children later and leaving them to their own devices.

Any SP or agency owner that knows me (and there are plenty) knows that these kind of accusations from douchebags like 'The Natural' are completely baseless and are only grounded in envy and petty jealousy, not in fact, and as such pretty much ignore it, as I have that thread. Chalk it up to being par for the course when being extremely active both in the industry and on the boards for many years. No big deal as far as I'm concerned.

Here's where it gets interesting.

This board's former darling - Cristy Curves - now gone from here and a vocal critic of this and every other ERB out there, has decided that she's going to teach me some sort of lesson. LOL! She has posted screen shots of the referenced 'Fake News' thread from this board, and has pinned them at the top of her public twitter feed, while continuing to accuse me online of the same bullshit, without a single shred of truth/fact. Then like the chicken shit she is, she tried to block me from seeing the account so I wouldn't know what she was doing.

On top of that, she has and continues to blog endlessly about me and my hobby endeavours never, to her knowledge, having ever even met me. She even goes so far as to suggest there are many other SP's out there that support her claims, but never actually names any of them of course.

Finally, I have been made aware by a number of the ladies that I frequent that she's even tried to post false bullshit on a couple of the private escort only forums, only to have them shot down by other ladies that know me.

In each case, the Fake News accusations in question are being posted on forums where I cannot refute them or defend against the lies and slander. Nice, huh? Very classy.

So, what to do?

I'll stop here for now and see how the conversation evolves before elaborating further.

I'm posting this here as this is IMO the same type of public harassment and abuse that Jessica has outlined as being experienced by the ladies in this industry. I wonder what the ladies feel is appropriate retribution for this type of behavior. I see many dudes being outed on Twitter with nary a blink of the eye by other SPs. Wonder what would happen if Ms. Curves were to be treated similarly?

Thought provoking to be sure...................
 
So, this is a very interesting thread, and I support Jessica's stated positions above. There is another reality in the industry that also bears discussion, and I'll use myself as an example.

Not long ago in this Board's Toxic Zone, the festering pile of shit known here as 'The Natural' posted a 'Fake News' thread accusing me not only of being a long-time solicitor and extortionist of BBFS, but also of getting numerous SP's pregnant only to abandon them and their children later and leaving them to their own devices.

Any SP or agency owner that knows me (and there are plenty) knows that these kind of accusations from douchebags like 'The Natural' are completely baseless and are only grounded in envy and petty jealousy, not in fact, and as such pretty much ignore it, as I have that thread. Chalk it up to being par for the course when being extremely active both in the industry and on the boards for many years. No big deal as far as I'm concerned.

Here's where it gets interesting.

This board's former darling - Cristy Curves - now gone from here and a vocal critic of this and every other ERB out there, has decided that she's going to teach me some sort of lesson. LOL! She has posted screen shots of the referenced 'Fake News' thread from this board, and has pinned them at the top of her public twitter feed, while continuing to accuse me online of the same bullshit, without a single shred of truth/fact. Then like the chicken shit she is, she tried to block me from seeing the account so I wouldn't know what she was doing.

On top of that, she has and continues to blog endlessly about me and my hobby endeavours never, to her knowledge, having ever even met me. She even goes so far as to suggest there are many other SP's out there that support her claims, but never actually names any of them of course.

Finally, I have been made aware by a number of the ladies that I frequent that she's even tried to post false bullshit on a couple of the private escort only forums, only to have them shot down by other ladies that know me.

In each case, the Fake News accusations in question are being posted on forums where I cannot refute them or defend against the lies and slander. Nice, huh? Very classy.

So, what to do?

I'll stop here for now and see how the conversation evolves before elaborating further.

I'm posting this here as this is IMO the same type of public harassment and abuse that Jessica has outlined as being experienced by the ladies in this industry. I wonder what the ladies feel is appropriate retribution for this type of behavior. I see many dudes being outed on Twitter with nary a blink of the eye by other SPs. Wonder what would happen if Ms. Curves were to be treated similarly?

Thought provoking to be sure...................

If everything you've posted is accurate she should be ashamed of herself and every gent should think twice about using her services. I'd also encourage you to look into slander and a defamation civil suit against The Natural and Cristy if you do not mind going public.
 
Boing and Leo are examples of entitled men, WTF guys she has a right to post anywhere and whenever she likes.

Who says she doesn't wildman?. I just asked a simple question and all of a sudden I am the bad guy?.
 
HmmmHmmmmmm What's with the insult?.

Not meant as an insult or directed at you.
The short version of Jessica's comments is "Don't be an asshat"
Sorry if you took my lame attempt at humour wrong.
 
Not meant as an insult or directed at you.
The short version of Jessica's comments is "Don't be an asshat"
Sorry if you took my lame attempt at humour wrong.

Thanks for clarifying it.
 
It sounds as if there are a couple of issues.

1. Guys who go beyond the menu when they know they are going beyond the menu. Those guys are wrong.

2. Guys who go beyond the menu because the menu is unclear to them. Honest mistakes. That's why communication is so important in any relationship. You always need to consider how the other person understands a statement and not just assume that they get your meaning. When I'm with a woman, I generally give strong hints of where I am heading (so she has the chance to say no) or will just state what I want.

1. Thank you for your agreement and support. It is important for issues like this. The more we have speaking out against this, the less it will be tolerated.

2. I agree there are times when things are unclear. And I am not unreasonable either. You are right though, communication is huge. That was my point. The "No means No" movement was based on the premise of saying no once an attempt was made. As we can see, by then, sometimes the line has already been crossed. There are taboo sexual things that some people like that others do not. And I would argue that if you tested a person's BDSM limits by slapping them while fucking them without asking then first, it is an assault.

So this is why I think the movement needs to change to a more proactive one and make it the "ASK FOR A YES" instead of the "No means No" movement.


Boing and Leo are examples of entitled men, WTF guys she has a right to post anywhere and whenever she likes.

As for assault, of course consent should always be a must but for an escort who provides service if Daty , FS , Digits are part of that service the only consideration should be is the client clean, safe fingernail wise, and STD free.

I agree. 100%. There is a scam component to the YMMV term. This is why I always encourage researching. I am not a YMMV type at all. If I can't do something, either because of you or because of me - I just end the session. It is just better for both that way.


So, this is a very interesting thread, and I support Jessica's stated positions above. There is another reality in the industry that also bears discussion, and I'll use myself as an example.

Not long ago in this Board's Toxic Zone, the festering pile of shit known here as 'The Natural' posted a 'Fake News' thread accusing me not only of being a long-time solicitor and extortionist of BBFS, but also of getting numerous SP's pregnant only to abandon them and their children later and leaving them to their own devices.

Any SP or agency owner that knows me (and there are plenty) knows that these kind of accusations from douchebags like 'The Natural' are completely baseless and are only grounded in envy and petty jealousy, not in fact, and as such pretty much ignore it, as I have that thread. Chalk it up to being par for the course when being extremely active both in the industry and on the boards for many years. No big deal as far as I'm concerned.

Here's where it gets interesting.

This board's former darling - Cristy Curves - now gone from here and a vocal critic of this and every other ERB out there, has decided that she's going to teach me some sort of lesson. LOL! She has posted screen shots of the referenced 'Fake News' thread from this board, and has pinned them at the top of her public twitter feed, while continuing to accuse me online of the same bullshit, without a single shred of truth/fact. Then like the chicken shit she is, she tried to block me from seeing the account so I wouldn't know what she was doing.

On top of that, she has and continues to blog endlessly about me and my hobby endeavours never, to her knowledge, having ever even met me. She even goes so far as to suggest there are many other SP's out there that support her claims, but never actually names any of them of course.

Finally, I have been made aware by a number of the ladies that I frequent that she's even tried to post false bullshit on a couple of the private escort only forums, only to have them shot down by other ladies that know me.

In each case, the Fake News accusations in question are being posted on forums where I cannot refute them or defend against the lies and slander. Nice, huh? Very classy.

So, what to do?

I'll stop here for now and see how the conversation evolves before elaborating further.

I'm posting this here as this is IMO the same type of public harassment and abuse that Jessica has outlined as being experienced by the ladies in this industry. I wonder what the ladies feel is appropriate retribution for this type of behavior. I see many dudes being outed on Twitter with nary a blink of the eye by other SPs. Wonder what would happen if Ms. Curves were to be treated similarly?

Thought provoking to be sure...................

There are a few ways that clients are assaulted or harassed in this industry. In the meaning of fairness, and since it was discussed on the other thread, I will address it here as well.

For example - I believe that any lady who works on her period without telling her client prior, is not obtaining informed consent. All consent is important. Just like it is for women, it is for men. And both equally deserve it. I will include lying about the pill too, but that generally doesn't get included in industry talk because it is assumed it is CFS.

I am 100% against false accusations. I have been vocal about that on many occasions as well. I have never really thought about it in the industry, however. I can see it now though. Falsing posting on BCLs and private only boards. That would be just like writing a false negative review. With the exception of financial loss, but that does not deter from the malice intent of the person posting the falsehood. It just changes the damages slightly.

In the case of CC, perpetrating that lie is equally as wrong, and if it was anyone other then you, who was posted about in that section, she would say that section has no creditability at all. She may not have started the lie, but she is just as couplable for trying to continue to spread it. And she is certainly accountable for any false entries that she tries to post on a private BCL.

There was a reason I waited until there were some real examples to prove the aspects of assault and harassment that I wanted to address. In each of them, there was an active thread where a poster/client was admitting to the actual act himself. It was not hypotheticals, or "private" discussions being brought up publically. This was stuff already publically posted. I wanted the discussion on the topic, not a bunch of "what ifs" and I wanted no dispute. Or as little as possible. Because it came straight from the horse's mouth. So there should not have been any dispute. These are important issues, and even when it is clear-cut as self-admission, there are some who still battle against it and often use false accusations in some way or another, in their argument. Usually by some trolls, and I didn't want to bother with that. It even annoyed me when posted by some.

I can see now, it is certainly an important part of the discussion. And maybe I should not have dismissed it so quickly.

As for what to do in your situation, that really all depends on you. You would certainly have some options available to you and you know that. You need to decide how much you are willing to ignore and chalk up to online like BS, like the thread in the Toxic Zone, or do you start to become active in ensuring accountability for wrongs being done against you? I think you know I am about speaking out against the wrongdoing but just as I respect the choice a woman makes about her victimization as a result of harassment being done to her, I would respect yours as well.
 
Fuck this. I am gone, I don't feel welcomed anymore. Plus I can't even PM Big Guy anymore for advice. He is gone :Crying/:
 
Good luck to my old friends and wish you the best. Mods, please delete my account.
 
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