Treating women truly as equals is a great thing

[oldguyzer]

Well said, Olivia :YMAPPLAUSE:

 

[JessieJames]

Dear MAL,

It is still sexist to assume gender roles that existed in the 50s are still valid bc they're not. End of discussion.

Everyone should be treated equally, but that doesn't mean giving up chivalry or not helping - that's just rude.

Plus, if Princess Auto has two men and four women mechanics and is doing well, they've done their job. The same as if a man is hired in a lingerie shop and he is successful, the shop has done their job too.

I certainly hope some people on here see it my way.

Xoxo,

Olivia

If the job is being done to everyone's satisfaction you are 100% correct.

i.e. I think a gay man would do a great job in a lingerie shop and the ladies would actually feel very comfortable with him, a heterosexual one not so much. You can't remove the urges a individuals and the lust that occurs in one's mind, you can only hope the individual controls them.

As for women fixing cars, absolutely! She's either capable or she's not and this is simple to assess.

 

[MisterAsianLover]

If the job is being done to everyone's satisfaction you are 100% correct.

i.e. I think a gay man would do a great job in a lingerie shop and the ladies would actually feel very comfortable with him, a heterosexual one not so much. You can't remove the urges a individuals and the lust that occurs in one's mind, you can only hope the individual controls them.

As for women fixing cars, absolutely! She's either capable or she's not and this is simple to assess.

No one at Princess Auto fixes cars. It is a retail store that sells tools.

I have yet to talk to a woman at Princess Auto that knows anything about fixing cars.

If I asked the average female Princess Auto employee if she has a serpentine belt removal tool, she would have no idea what I was referring to. If I asked her if they sell fuse relay for a 2000 Toyota Corolla, I would get a blank stare.

Insane to hire women to work at an auto tool store.

 

[cristycurves]

Insane to hire women to work at an auto tool store.

but it's not insane for a tool to make such a comment you've proved that!!

on another note....Olivia:YMAPPLAUSE:

 

[Peter Baires]

There you go. Put forth a lie because you are a mangina that is need of getting acceptance from a woman.

Women don't work on cars. Go to a repair shop and try to find even 10% of the mechanics being women. It just isnt true.

I don't need to get acceptance or approval from anybody. I had several heated arguments with Ms Charlotte regarding subjects that I thought she was wrong. However, when I think she is correct I will say so. I don't care if you or anybody else think I'm a white knight by doing so.

your hatred for women is quite obvious. I'm sorry that you are in an abusive relationship. But don't hate or blame every woman just because of one. You are acting the same way as all those women that blame every man for their abusive relationship or experiences

 

[Olivia Grace]

Dear MAL,

Women are not objects, regardless of how you feel about them. So "I have yet to talk to a woman... THAT knows anything about fixing cars" might be better if you changed it to "who".

Just saying.

Xoxo,

Olivia

 

[Robintheboywonder]

I don't need to get acceptance or approval from anybody. I had several heated arguments with Ms Charlotte regarding subjects that I thought she was wrong. However, when I think she is correct I will say so. I don't care if you or anybody else think I'm a white knight by doing so.

your hatred for women is quite obvious. I'm sorry that you are in an abusive relationship. But don't hate or blame every woman just because of one. You are acting the same way as all those women that blame every man for their abusive relationship or experiences

Anyone who gets flown to do an all nighter with a famous hot pornstar is THE MAN in my books!

Can I be your sidekick please. I'll sneak you into the batcave and let you drive around in the Batmobile.

 

[CharloteEdwards]

Treating women truly as equals is a great thing

I hate to disagree. Why should a woman feel uncomfortable by a man selling lingerie? Much of women's fashion is designed by men. A man can learn what works and fits for different body types. Why couldn't we say that men would be uncomfortable buying auto parts from women?

The way I look at it, gender, race and any other category we put each other into shouldn't play into things. Should only African Americans be allowed to work in certain shops. Should only Jews be allowed to work at certain shops? Equality is equality. That means you ignore race, gender and the others and just look at someone's ability. There may be men out there that know a great deal more about lingerie than most women...why is his being a man a problem. For no better reason than wanting a male mechanic than some chick working on your car.

you can't have it both ways.


PS....what about a trans-gendered individual working at the lingerie shop....going to exclude them too?

You misinterpreted what I said and as you are not a lady who tries on lingerie. I will explain. Often the sales women have to help us with garments whether we are naked or almost naked if something is hard to put on etc. so no I do not think that it is comfortable to have a heterosexual male salesperson coming in to my dressing room to help me do such things. I have no problem with men gay or straight selling any ladies items. I was talking about a lingerie store where often the sales ladies actually see us in lingerie, or nude etc because of the nature of the item.


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[CharloteEdwards]

Women don't work on cars, use tools or fix cars. To proclaim otherwise is nonsense.

Take another example, why are there only women who work at Sephora? Why can't men sell cosmetics as Sephora? It would be absurd to hire men to sell makeup at Sephora.

Well, hiring women, especially as the majority, to work at Princess Auto Parts is ABSURD as well.

You're an idiot. When I worked for an automotive audio store there was a female technician who worked on cars. She installed remote car starters, stereos, etc. just because you say women don't work on cars doesn't make it so. Plenty of men wear makeup too wether they are gay or straight, take a look at YouTube makeup channels, many men displaying make up how to videos. And yes I have seen men at mac makeup or Sephora. You just want to argue that you're always right, but whatever.


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[peace]

Really PLENTY of men wearing make up,,,not just a few????? Madman will be happy to know. :biggrin2:

 

[oldguyzer]

You're an idiot. When I worked for an automotive audio store there was a female technician who worked on cars.

The garage that handles my cars has a female mechanic, fully certified with, like, a piece of paper from some school (not on the Internet!) and additional course stuff every year! I wish MAL had given his advice a decade ago, so I could have stopped her working on my vehicle. To think all those years and miles of trouble-free motoring caused by....gasp...a woman.

Yeah, MAL, I know she probably got some male to help her, huh?

 

[oldguyzer]

Didn't they have this same argument about female reporters in men's locker rooms? Do male reports get invited into women's locker rooms? I have no idea...

 

[CharloteEdwards]

Don't get me wrong...I can see your point. But truly having both gender's equal would require us to look past the genders in every situation. Any cherry picking of situations says that the rule cannot be applied equally and therefore there is no equality.

Try to look at it from a man's point of view.

- we are expected to open doors, pay the tab, etc (tradition, chivalry).
- we are expected to be the strong ones.
- we are expected to be the bread winners.
- we are expected to kill the spiders, mice, centipedes.
- we are expected to do this, that and the other, many times to our disadvantage.

But if we expect any expectations from women (traditional or otherwise) we are labeled misogynists.

- men are at an instant disadvantage in divorce, child custody cases and other situations.
- men are pigeonholed into career paths, just like women.

So I'm just trying to point out that if we are going to say we are equal and women should be able to do any job that a man can do....it should include the lingerie shop. Otherwise, be ready to hear from some people that they don't want women mechanics, firefighters, soldiers, doctors or whatever.

Isn't that fair?

There is a huge difference between gender equality on the basis that both genders can do equal work, and jobs where sexual harassment/assault issues are more likely to happen. As I said I don't have a problem with men selling any ladies products at all whatsoever. I simply said that I personally would not want a heterosexual guy knocking on my door at a lingerie store and asking me if he could come in and help me do up my bra or corset or whatever it is that i am trying on regardless of him trying to be helpful and "do his job". As men you don't often have the same experiences and circumstances with being sexually harassed by the opposite sex in day to day life and i'm certain that companies are not being sexist by hiring women at lingerie stores it's simply to avoid any issues in regards to customer and employee relations. I don't understand why this is hard to comprehend. I am also not the type of women who expects a man to bow down to her, to open every door or cater to her and pay for everything. I often do everything on my own in my personal life, I'm a capable woman, I can take care of myself. Even ask my clients - "Does Charlotte sit/stand there and wait for you to open the door for her?" And they would tell you "no, she just opens it herself and thinks nothing of it." I often apologize to clients who say "Oh I was going to open the door for you" and say "sorry it's not a big deal to me don't worry about it I'm so used to doing it myself."

Nodrama aka MAL often likes to make sweeping statements and assumptions about what women expect, what we can do and how they apparently all treat him. Yes I am an escort, but I choose what clients I see, I choose what I will and will not do and with whom, and in my personal life going about day to day errands is quite different than when I am working and catering to a gentleman in a session. I'm not sure why we're even arguing about this, when it's all pretty apparent how strong the male sex drive is and how women are sexualized here and in daily life. Really you're going to argue that having women and those who identify as women only helping women in a change room isn't fair to men because of gender equality? Are you going to argue for communal change rooms at the pool next?

I just find it rather off-putting that some men on an escort review board are complaining about what's expected of them as men.... do you see us complaining what's expected of us as women? Or as escorts when we see you in an appointment?

Are any of the woman on this board beating you over the head with what YOUR gender roles are and our expectations of you are? Because I don't see that. I see women simply defending themselves against MAL. I could care less about women and men doing what they are "supposed" to do by society gender norms. In a relationship both parties agree to split the work in any way that they are comfortable and that's enough for me.

 

[Olivia Grace]

Well said Charlotte :YMAPPLAUSE:
I do remember being in Seductions (several years ago now) and there were two male employees working downstairs on toys and two female employees upstairs working on changerooms. When a guy came up there, he would just throw the lingerie over the top of the door, as I was not necessarily comfortable with him seeing me, as you say, almost naked.

I think being sensitive to people's wants and needs in any company is a good thing and can help prevent problematic issues, but equality in the vast majority of opportunities is what we're talking about here. And how to not be rude (I help anyone I see struggling and let people go through the door before me - it's not just a male/female thing).

Xoxo,

Olivia

 

[LisbethNova]

In the past, I would often help women at the grocery store who wanted my assistance reaching something or lifting something onto their cart. I was asked often, for I have that boyish charm and 'good-boy' look to myself.

But, then I started thinking, why don't these women have their boyfriends or husbands do these things for them?

So, I started to refuse. I have actually said to some women - 'You should get your man to come shopping with you.'

Wow that is really shitty. I would be baffled if I asked for some assistance and you said that. I don't think it's about being a man or woman.. i think its about not being an asshole.

 

[CharloteEdwards]

Wow that is really shitty. I would be baffled if I asked for some assistance and you said that. I don't think it's about being a man or woman.. i think its about not being an asshole.

LOL. and gender equality does not mean that tall men need to be assholes to shorter women should they as for assistance simply based on height - which is different than gender naturally!

 

[oldguyzer]

Wow that is really shitty. I would be baffled if I asked for some assistance and you said that. I don't think it's about being a man or woman.. i think its about not being an asshole.

LOL. and gender equality does not mean that tall men need to be assholes to shorter women should they as for assistance simply based on height - which is different than gender naturally!

Ladies, keep in mind MAL is a constant lurker who says stupid things like that to goad a response. Yes, he's an ass and a dickhead, but there's bound to be a few like him on boards like this, unfortunately. I have faith that as soon as he crosses the line the Mods will ban his ass (again).

 

[MisterAsianLover]

You're an idiot. When I worked for an automotive audio store there was a female technician who worked on cars. She installed remote car starters, stereos, etc. just because you say women don't work on cars doesn't make it so. Plenty of men wear makeup too wether they are gay or straight, take a look at YouTube makeup channels, many men displaying make up how to videos. And yes I have seen men at mac makeup or Sephora. You just want to argue that you're always right, but whatever.


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Charlotte, FYI:

From 2011 Government of Canada StatsCan document:

'Among the 20 most common occupations for men, men accounted for more than 9 out of 10 workers in: transport truck driver; carpenter; automotive service technician, truck and bus mechanic and mechanical repairer; construction trades helper and labourer; welder and related machine operator; electrician; and delivery and courier service driver.'

https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/nhs-enm/2011/as-sa/99-012-x/99-012-x2011002-eng.cfm

Even when women self-report, it is A FACT that less than 10% of automotive technicians are women and from my experience working in the educational industry that trained automotive technicianS, the real number is 3% of technicians are women.

Charlotte, do you acknowledge that less than 10% of the auto techs are women? Or are you going to continue to misrepresent the truth?

When you lie or misrepresent, you will always lose every argument, Charlotte. Free advice to you.

Now, back to Princess Auto. When I go to Princess Auto, more than 70% of the workers are women. If women don't work on cars - personal or professional, why so many women working at Princess Auto?

Disgusting.

 

[Lily Divine]

In the past, I would often help women at the grocery store who wanted my assistance reaching something or lifting something onto their cart. I was asked often, for I have that boyish charm and 'good-boy' look to myself.

But, then I started thinking, why don't these women have their boyfriends or husbands do these things for them?

So, I started to refuse. I have actually said to some women - 'You should get your man to come shopping with you.'

I would like to thank you for your interesting perspective. I made it to the bottom of page one and had a realization that there is a reason I am currently single.

It is not because I am incapable of finding someone whom I could 'call my man', or that I have never been married (yes I am a bitter divorcee sometimes *coughs the word HIATUS* but typically when I am enjoying Lily time you would never know)... It is because some men have lost the concept that treating a woman with respect, and treating her as an equal should go hand in hand.

It would be my distinct pleasure to introduce you to my ex-husband. The two of you appear to have a lot in common... Though in his case he will pay for dinner for someone he will absolutely get his dick wet with as well.

I admit I am actually pretty disappointed because I did expect a bit better from you based upon past interactions, but people change and you really should do what makes you happy.

Respectfully,
Lily

P.S. Sometimes the women are the ones who take the massive hit when starting over. I have known more than a few women who society would call 'strong, independent women' who chose not to even take what was legally and morally appropriate. I think ones words were 'I would rather starve than take the pain and angst that go with a regular cheque from him!'.

P.P.S. Ladies now that we have the president of the He-Man Woman Hater's Club elected... Please feel free to call me if you need something on a tall shelf lifted down. At somewhere between 5'9-10" I tower above most. I've got you!!! If not then one of my absolutely wonderful, and sweet male friends would gladly assist as well!

*wanders away muttering about asshats taking over the world*

 

[CharloteEdwards]

Charlotte, FYI:

From 2011 Government of Canada StatsCan document:

'Among the 20 most common occupations for men, men accounted for more than 9 out of 10 workers in: transport truck driver; carpenter; automotive service technician, truck and bus mechanic and mechanical repairer; construction trades helper and labourer; welder and related machine operator; electrician; and delivery and courier service driver.'

https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/nhs-enm/2011/as-sa/99-012-x/99-012-x2011002-eng.cfm

Even when women self-report, it is A FACT that less than 10% of automotive technicians are women and from my experience working in the educational industry that trained automotive technicianS, the real number is 3% of technicians are women.

Charlotte, do you acknowledge that less than 10% of the auto techs are women? Or are you going to continue to misrepresent the truth?

When you lie or misrepresent, you will always lose every argument, Charlotte. Free advice to you.

Now, back to Princess Auto. When I go to Princess Auto, more than 70% of the workers are women. If women don't work on cars - personal or professional, why so many women working at Princess Auto?

Disgusting.

Misrepresenting the truth? Lying? Nowhere did I say that all women, or a majority of women have these jobs. You make terrible arguments and only end up making yourself look bad.

I simply stated that I personally worked in sales selling car accessories and there was a female installer technician I worked with as well. Yes we were the only women in our departments, but we still did the job along with men, when previously you were saying that women don't do these jobs because men do. People are free to have whatever job they want and you need to let your Princess Auto/Canadian Tire female employee vendetta go. I used to run the car audio and accessory department I worked in for several years after learning on the job and I dealt with guys like you all the time acting like because I didn't actually install the products myself I couldn't possibly know anything about them. It was pretty funny actually how many times some asshole would storm into the installation bay and demand to talk to "a man" because they didn't want to talk to me on the sales floor. The male installers would walk right up to the them and tell them that I was the sales expert in the department and confirm what I had just told them and they would realize they couldn't pull this behaviour just because I was a woman in a department dealing with cars.

This is flawed logic as we all know people who understand how something works or even teaches when they know the theory and don't do it in practice. Lots of people sell products even though they don't build or install them, they can still understand the features, benefits and how it fits together with a customer's needs and existing set up.