Send your prayers, well wishes and karma. Van strikes, 10 pedestrians at Yonge/Finch

[Guest]

Something doesn't add up for me.

From interviews of people who knew him at school say they are surprised he was even able to drive a van because of his disabilities.

So how the hell did he rent a van ?

Of coarse there is always the possibility he stole it, but something doesn't seem right here.

those with Asperger’s give themselves self-imposed driving restrictions bc they want to avoid overstimulating environments e.g. bright sun, highways—there are no legal limitations for ASD that i’m aware of as long as they are medically cleared. there are so many things even “normal” people have to be medically cleared for before driving, even if you’ve fainted in the past year from dehydration. they are still able to rent and drive like anyone else and are actually super intelligent in one particular area. i knew an amazing surgeon with Asperger’s.

i think the newscasts are blaming it on him being an “incel” or involuntarilary celibate.. read somewhere that he wanted to die by cop shooting. i met one of the victims a year ago, it’s fucking sad someone would do this.

 

[ROBERTSON]

I do not claim to have any knowledge of the various disabilities he supposedly had, just commenting on the interviewers comments about him.

But if he gets off easy because of his "disability", then he should not have been given a license in the first place.

 

[peace]

i don't understand how people do this either.

However, revenge and hate filled situations towards women for rejecting a man, is not something new to most women.

Women are always having to be on guard when rejecting men. For whatever reason. Like they are already married. Could have nothing to do with guy himself but he can still go off.

We are horrible people because we don't fuck a man when he wants. Sadly, that type of thinking is not new to us.

on a side note: glad you are still with us

With all due respect, why would you bring up a comment like this in time of this sensitive issue especially when it just happened so recently? Meanwhile as Primo said, "My heart goes out to all of those who lost someone/something." Very upsetting.

 

[Jessica Rain]

With all due respect, why would you bring up a comment like this in time of this sensitive issue especially when it just happened so recently? Meanwhile as Primo said, "My heart goes out to all of those who lost someone/something." Very upsetting.

Because of his apparent motivations behind this. His feeling of being Incel and the idolization of Elliot Rodger.

While I think that all of us here can't understand the thinking behind this man's actions, it is important to point out that violence against women aspect to this case.

If it was a religion motivated attack we would be taking religion.

If it was a hate crime towards black people we would be talikg race issues. Hate crime against gays, we would be talking about troubles facing the LGTBQ2 community.

Are you suggesting that because his apparent motivations at this time was his issues regarding his perceived "Involuntary Celebicy" and his anger towards women, it is not worth discussing the issues that women face on regular for rejecting men? Is that because of sexist views? Or something else? I personally don't see what your issue with the topic.

As I said, this man's type of thinking, while I may not understand it, is not new to women in general. The idea that because we have vaginas and men "need" sex, some men truly feel we owe it to them to be with them. They start to get angry and hate filled when women don't and then bad shit happens. Not always as big as this but it is certain not the first, nor will it be the last time that a guy goes off on a killing spree because he hates women and their rejections.

I guess being a woman, and added to his motives for this, it seemed like part of the topic at hand.

 

[papasmerf]

Because of his apparent motivations behind this. His feeling of being Incel and the idolization of Elliot Rodger.

While I think that all of us here can't understand the thinking behind this man's actions, it is important to point out that violence against women aspect to this case.

If it was a religion motivated attack we would be taking religion.

If it was a hate crime towards black people we would be talikg race issues. Hate crime against gays, we would be talking about troubles facing the LGTBQ2 community.

Are you suggesting that because his apparent motivations at this time was his issues regarding his perceived "Involuntary Celebicy" and his anger towards women, it is not worth discussing the issues that women face on regular for rejecting men? Is that because of sexist views? Or something else? I personally don't see what your issue with the topic.

As I said, this man's type of thinking, while I may not understand it, is not new to women in general. The idea that because we have vaginas and men "need" sex, some men truly feel we owe it to them to be with them. They start to get angry and hate filled when women don't and then bad shit happens. Not always as big as this but it is certain not the first, nor will it be the last time that a guy goes off on a killing spree because he hates women and their rejections.

I guess being a woman, and added to his motives for this, it seemed like part of the topic at hand.

Jessica.......Trying to understand him is not what the victims and their families need.....They need justice not excuses.

 

[Jessica Rain]

Jessica.......Trying to understand him is not what the victims and their families need.....They need justice not excuses.

You will never get justice for something like this. What is justice for killing 10 people??? For injuring even more???

I am not trying to understand him at all. I fully admit I can't understand a person like that.

But there are plenty of men like him, or who think along the same lines. There are plenty of men who are reactionary to rejection. This is not new to women. How many women "went along with it" knowing that rejecting the person, boss, co-worker, law enforcement officer, teacher, doctors, etc would have made things so much worse for her?

When the subreddit forum for Incels was shut down, there were 40,000 members. That is 40K people just openly hating women for their desires not to have sex with them.

I know I have tried to explain the issues that women face regarding sex and voilence. Consistently getting opposition with higher concerns for men, their need for sex and women be damned.

This is an extreme case but not one that is isolated. We don't have to understand him, but communication and discussion is the only way to help combat the very real and every day reality that comes with turning some men, many men down.

Now this is not to say that only men behave this way or only men act bad when rejected or anything of the sort. I am not here to dismiss the real reality for men either but if this is not a good time to open up talks about this type of stuff, then I don't know when is the right time.

 

[Wino]

You will never get justice for something like this. What is justice for killing 10 people??? For injuring even more???

I am not trying to understand him at all. I fully admit I can't understand a person like that.

But there are plenty of men like him, or who think along the same lines. There are plenty of men who are reactionary to rejection. This is not new to women. How many women "went along with it" knowing that rejecting the person, boss, co-worker, law enforcement officer, teacher, doctors, etc would have made things so much worse for her?

When the subreddit forum for Incels was shut down, there were 40,000 members. That is 40K people just openly hating women for their desires not to have sex with them.

I know I have tried to explain the issues that women face regarding sex and voilence. Consistently getting opposition with higher concerns for men, their need for sex and women be damned.

This is is an extreme case but not one that is isolated. We don't have to understand him, but communication and discussion is the only way to help combat the very real and every day reality that comes with turning some men, many men down.

Now this is not to say that only men behave this way or only men act bad when rejected or anything of the sort. I am not here to dismiss he real reality for men either but if this is not a good time to open up talks about this type of stuff, then I don't know when is the right time.

Why overdue it with so many words towards hate to males?. He was a bad dude that killed innocent ones. Could have been a woman, what would you say if it was a woman with the same mental issues?.

Bottom line is, he is a criminal. Nothing to do with what sex gender that person is.

 

[BEER]

How could they have missed so many red flags?.

The suspect in Monday's Toronto van attack referenced an extremist "men's rights" movement and praised a 22-year-old mass shooter in a Facebook post made before the attack.

The post from Alek Minassian, 22, has since been deleted. Minassian has been charged with 10 counts in the van attack, which killed 10 people and injured 15 others.

“Private (Recruit) Minassian Infantry 00010, wishing to speak to Sgt 4chan please,” Minassian wrote. “C23249161. The Incel Rebellion has already begun! We will overthrow all the Chads and Stacys! All hail the Supreme Gentleman Elliot Rodger!”
Minassian's message praises Elliot Rodger, the 22-year-old who killed six people in a California rampage in 2014 and left behind a manifesto detailing his anger toward women. Rodger's social alienation and violence have made him a hero in certain extremist, misogynist sections of the internet.

Minassian's reference to an "incel rebellion" refers to the internet's self-described movement of the "involuntarily celibate" — men who are angry, often at women, because they've failed to find sexual partners.

Minassian's post mentions 4Chan, an anonymous online message and image board popular with members of the far-right. Minassian also references "Chads and Stacys" — an internet meme referring to stereotypically "popular" men and women who are reviled by self-identified incels.

Incel forums, including one on 4Chan, often feature hate speech about women. Reddit shuttered its own incel forum in 2017 over concerns about its extremist content.

"I can confirm on background that the post screenshotted in this tweet was real and has been removed from Facebook along with Minassian’s account," a Facebook representative told The Hill.

Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau called the attack "senseless" in a statement Tuesday.

“On behalf of all Canadians I offered my deepest, heartfelt condolences to the loved ones of all those who were killed and we wish a full recovery to the injured and stand with the families and friends of the victims,” he said

 

[Guest]

I do not claim to have any knowledge of the various disabilities he supposedly had, just commenting on the interviewers comments about him.

But if he gets off easy because of his "disability", then he should not have been given a license in the first place.

i’m just debating your original implication that those with ”his disabilities” are dumb and can’t drive/rent:unknw: those “friends” who came forward were from grades 5, 8, 11 if i rmb correctly—he enrolled into seneca in 2011 meaning he most likely improved after 7+years!

lack of empathy+compulsive behaviour are characteristic of asperger’s and has been used as an insanity defense for a lot of criminal cases. not justifying it but its not “getting off easy”, its purpose is to be fair. having “various disabilities” may not be the sole reason for him doing this.

he deserves to be punished fairly with his conditions taken into account but also should have access to support/rehab services for ASD. there’ll never be enough justice for anne marie and the other victims, she was the happiest person ever and i’m glad all these stupid incel forums have shut down.

 

[Jessica Rain]

Why overdue it with so many words towards hate to males?. He was a bad dude that killed innocent ones. Could have been a woman, what would you say if it was a woman with the same mental issues?.

Bottom line is, he is a criminal. Nothing to do with what sex gender that person is.

I said I don't negate what women do to men. I would say what was needed in that case too. But that is not this.

I don't hate men. Wouldn't be an escort if I did. It is not my fault that people behave the way they do. But you think my post is hatefilled towards men? Which I will try to change wording in the future because that is not my intent but how do you think women feel about men like this who want to kill women simply because women did not want to have sex with him. This guy killed 10 people. I just wrote a couple of posts

Having said that, this was gender based. By him. He made it that way. Not me. He is the one who believes what he does. He is the one who felt rejected by women and went on a rampage. That is the reality of what happened. Not something imagined by me. Not something I am making up, not some brand wagon to jump on. It is what it is. I am just discussing the broader issue

i’m just debating your original implication that those with ”his disabilities” are dumb and can’t drive/rent:unknw: those “friends” who came forward were from grades 5, 8, 11 if i rmb correctly—he enrolled into seneca in 2011 meaning he most likely improved after 7+years!

lack of empathy+compulsive behaviour are characteristic of asperger’s and has been used as an insanity defense for a lot of criminal cases. not justifying it but its not “getting off easy”, its purpose is to be fair. having “various disabilities” may not be the sole reason for him doing this.

he deserves to be punished fairly with his conditions taken into account but also should have access to support/rehab services for ASD. there’ll never be enough justice for anne marie and the other victims, she was the happiest person ever and i’m glad all these stupid incel forums have shut down.

I am glad they are shut down too but just like this industry and BP, these people will find another spot.

The scary thing is the numbers of this community and how fast it has grown. Elliot Rodger really did sensaltionize the movement.

The other scary thing is that this is two people in 4 yesrs who have carried out attacks like this. While Alek May have aspergers, we don't know about the rest of the community. Clearly this "community" is something that needs further investigation. Even on boards like this and the others, you will see men preaching about the MGTOW movement. Thousands of men who feel women OWE them sex. OWE them a relationship. Often angry and full of narcissism, misogyny and hate. It is only a matter of time before more things like this happen.

 

[ROBERTSON]

i’m just debating your original implication that those with ”his disabilities” are dumb and can’t drive/rent:unknw: those “friends” who came forward were from grades 5, 8, 11 if i rmb correctly—he enrolled into seneca in 2011 meaning he most likely improved after 7+years!

lack of empathy+compulsive behaviour are characteristic of asperger’s and has been used as an insanity defense for a lot of criminal cases. not justifying it but its not “getting off easy”, its purpose is to be fair. having “various disabilities” may not be the sole reason for him doing this.

he deserves to be punished fairly with his conditions taken into account but also should have access to support/rehab services for ASD. there’ll never be enough justice for anne marie and the other victims, she was the happiest person ever and i’m glad all these stupid incel forums have shut down.

Why are now you are insinuating I said he was too "dumb" to drive ?

I never stated why those who have been interviewed, including current classmates, were surprised he had a license, one individual described how he had poor control over his hands, even you would think that would be strange.

So now you are saying he should not receive the same sentencing, as some one else who killed 10 people, because we should be "fair".

"lack of empathy+compulsive behaviour are characteristic of asperger’s", , sure fits what he did, and yet once again, he was given a drivers license ?

I'll repeat, if he is given a lighter sentence because of his mental disability, would be just another example of idiots in positions in governments making idiotic policy.

Truly sorry for your loss. :sad2:

 

[Guest]

Why are now you are insinuating I said he was too "dumb" to drive ?

I never stated why those who have been interviewed, including current classmates, were surprised he had a license, one individual described how he had poor control over his hands, even you would think that would be strange.

So now you are saying he should not receive the same sentencing, as some one else who killed 10 people, because we should be "fair".

"lack of empathy+compulsive behaviour are characteristic of asperger’s", , sure fits what he did, and yet once again, he was given a drivers license ?

I'll repeat, if he is given a lighter sentence because of his mental disability, would be just another example of idiots in positions in governments making idiotic policy.

Truly sorry for your loss. :sad2:

just saying that’s how it came across when i read your original post in “how the hell did [someone with Asperger’s] rent a van?”. these people noted his disabilities based off interactions from 7+ years ago. evidently, he has improved bc he was in an ASD program that taught him how to have a job. most people with jobs can figure out a car rental, no?

he might not have done this horrific act if he didn’t have Asperger’s, but we’ll never know. so yes, he still deserves a FAIR TRIAL like everyone in the criminal justice system. same way Anne Marie deserves justice for her passing, in which she would want this to never happen again. how? by funding programs to facilitate normal daily living and anger management for people with ASD. his program lost funding, and thats when he spun out of control.

it’s not like i’m the presiding judge and decide his sentence so don’t get your panties in a twist, its just an ERB... i’m sticking up for ALL people with disabilities, they are not lower-level humans with lesser skills in all areas. however, this man is inferior—not because of his disability but bc he killed 10 people due to his hate towards women as jessica has mentioned.

if YOU had a disorder that impaired your ability to recognize the ramifications of your actions, would your lawyer fight for a lighter sentence based on your mental health? fuck yeah.

 

[ROBERTSON]

just saying that’s how it came across when i read your original post in “how the hell did [someone with Asperger’s] rent a van?”. these people noted his disabilities based off interactions from 7+ years ago. evidently, he has improved bc he was in an ASD program that taught him how to have a job. most people with jobs can figure out a car rental, no?

he might not have done this horrific act if he didn’t have Asperger’s, but we’ll never know. so yes, he still deserves a FAIR TRIAL like everyone in the criminal justice system. same way Anne Marie deserves justice for her passing, in which she would want this to never happen again. how? by funding programs to facilitate normal daily living and anger management for people with ASD. his program lost funding, and thats when he spun out of control.

it’s not like i’m the presiding judge and decide his sentence so don’t get your panties in a twist, its just an ERB... i’m sticking up for ALL people with disabilities, they are not lower-level humans with lesser skills in all areas. however, this man is inferior—not because of his disability but bc he killed 10 people due to his hate towards women as jessica has mentioned.

if YOU had a disorder that impaired your ability to recognize the ramifications of your actions, would your lawyer fight for a lighter sentence based on your mental health? fuck yeah.

Once again you twist and ignore my points.
For the 3rd time, I made my statement about him getting a drivers license, based on those people who were interviewed, INCLUDING current classmates.

And I have never insinuated anything other than a "fair" trial for him, but if your idea of "fair", is to take into consideration, his mental disabilities, "lack of empathy+compulsive behaviour" and reduce his punishment, WRONG, shit what if he said it was his "religious right".

If you are still stating he should be given special treatment because of his mental short comings, "lack of empathy+compulsive behaviour", why the hell was he given a licence in the 1st place, a licence to murder 10 people ?

One more time, if he deserves special treatment in sentencing because of his mental disability, he should NOT have been given a licence in the 1st place, because of his mental disability.

You are not in a position to state he did this simply because he hates women, but if the courts are lenient, then his mental disability definatly played an important part.

Another example of incompetent, being kind here, is the government allowing autistic children in public schools, who end up attacking teachers and children.

It is unfortunate that anybody is born with a disability, through no fault of their own, but that is reality, like it or not.

And since I don't wear panties, so they are not in a twist, I'm not one of "those".

 

[DILLIGAF]

Well hey I might as well wade in on this topic.
First and foremost I don't really want to hijack the topic of the thread but that was done a long time ago.
Perhaps a mod can split this thread and keep the condolence's separate from the slamming.????\
My Condolences go out to the victims who lost their lives,the victim who are still fighting and to the firemen, the EMS staff, the 911 dispatch, the police, the private citizens that aided the victims and assisted, and even to the private citizens that just were a witness to this tragedy.

Now the slamming part of the post.
This person committed an act on behalf of an extremist. Period full stop.
It is being touted that he has a mental issue.
If he was that bad an could not tell the difference between life and death just who was looking after him?
Who was watching him when he was on his computer looking at the site that brought this on?
If his medication or counselling was cut from government funding who was helping him?
Before anyone gets all pissy with me YES I am fully aware of the problems a parent has raising a child with ausberger's disease.

I am going to ask you this. What is the difference between a normal terrorist (if that is possible to find) and a terrorist that commits a crime and hides behind an illness?

DILLIGAF

 

[Guest]

Once again you twist and ignore my points.
For the 3rd time, I made my statement about him getting a drivers license, based on those people who were interviewed, INCLUDING current classmates.

And I have never insinuated anything other than a "fair" trial for him, but if your idea of "fair", is to take into consideration, his mental disabilities, "lack of empathy+compulsive behaviour" and reduce his punishment, WRONG, shit what if he said it was his "religious right".

If you are still stating he should be given special treatment because of his mental short comings, "lack of empathy+compulsive behaviour", why the hell was he given a licence in the 1st place, a licence to murder 10 people ?

One more time, if he deserves special treatment in sentencing because of his mental disability, he should NOT have been given a licence in the 1st place, because of his mental disability.

Another example of incompetent, being kind here, is the government allowing autistic children in public schools, who end up attacking teachers and children.

It is unfortunate that anybody is born with a disability, through no fault of their own, but that is reality, like it or not.

And since I don't wear panties, so they are not in a twist, I'm not one of "those".

i understand your argument, it’s just stupid lmao all of the autistic people i know have the kindest souls. “normal” people without disabilities also have the ability to be violent, am i right? you don’t understand the legal definition of a fair trial if you honestly think taking into account mental illness can’t be claimed. why do you think the insanity plea exists?? RELIGION IS CHOSEN, DISABILITIES ARE NOT.

sure he was given a license and shouldn’t have. his psychological assessment wasn’t adequate aka this was to do with his mental health eg misogyny, not the physical manifestations of his disability eg. fidgeting which was my point all along. who are you going to blame for the license? he should still be given the chance to claim Asperger’s for reduced sentence either way. what was his doctor supposed to do? check his fb and recommend he “probably” won’t kill 10 people with a van? have the driving test instructor make sure he doesn’t know how to drive on sidewalks? you can’t control knowing what a person will do next.

i’m half deaf, should my license be taken away bc i don’t hear sirens as fast as everyone else IN CASE i get in the way of an ambulance and cause a death to occur? no. instead, i’m way more aware than the average driver so i don’t get into accidents. those with ASD know their limits too and it can be controlled. agree to disagree? because you’re clearly ableist as fuck and i will never agree with people like that.

 

[What A Wookie]

Autism not associated with violence, advocates say | The Star

 

[Signingin]

[h=1]Why some 'incels' are celebrating accused in Toronto van attack[/h][h=2]Journalist Aditi Natasha Kini has covered the 'involuntary celibate' culture referenced by Alek Minassian[/h]
Why some '''incels''' are celebrating accused in Toronto van attack | CBC Radio

What is ‘incel’? Explaining the cryptic Facebook message allegedly left by Toronto attacker | National Post

 

[ROBERTSON]

i understand your argument, it’s just stupid lmao all of the autistic people i know have the kindest souls. “normal” people without disabilities also have the ability to be violent, am i right? you don’t understand the legal definition of a fair trial if you honestly think taking into account mental illness can’t be claimed. why do you think the insanity plea exists?? RELIGION IS CHOSEN, DISABILITIES ARE NOT.

sure he was given a license and shouldn’t have. his psychological assessment wasn’t adequate aka this was to do with his mental health eg misogyny, not the physical manifestations of his disability eg. fidgeting which was my point all along. who are you going to blame for the license? he should still be given the chance to claim Asperger’s for reduced sentence either way. what was his doctor supposed to do? check his fb and recommend he “probably” won’t kill 10 people with a van? have the driving test instructor make sure he doesn’t know how to drive on sidewalks? you can’t control knowing what a person will do next.

i’m half deaf, should my license be taken away bc i don’t hear sirens as fast as everyone else IN CASE i get in the way of an ambulance and cause a death to occur? no. instead, i’m way more aware than the average driver so i don’t get into accidents. those with ASD know their limits too and it can be controlled. agree to disagree? because you’re clearly ableist as fuck and i will never agree with people like that.

A few points about your rambling, nonsensical post.

- You either do not understand my argument, or you are simply running away from it with childish insults thrown in because you have nothing adult to say.

- By your "thought process", a "fair trial" would be letting him off with a lighter sentence because one has to take into account his "mental illness".
"Fair" to who ?
Your friend, and 9 others who are now dead ?

- And by your "thought process", a person with Asperger's has a built in get out of jail free card because he has a mental disability, before he even commits 10 counts of murder, that is fricken ridiculous.

- Religion is invariably not a choice, the young are indoctrinated/brain washed, making it extremely difficult for the religious to think otherwise.

- And once again with the lying personal insults, I have never said he was inferior.

- You come across like a 12 year old girl who took up smoking because you thought it made you look cool, and have just recently been brave enough to use "fuck", when you make your final insult.

- Since that is the language you seem to prefer, grow the fuck up.

I'm done with you, unless you can learn to post like an adult, otherwise I won't be wasting my time responding.



-

 

[Warpainter]

Fundraiser by DawaNet Canada : Toronto Van Attack Victims Funds

 

[JJ Mitchell]

The victim's names.

What we know so far about the victims of the Toronto van attack | CTV News